I don't see it as a question of what we want. It's a question of whether the Bible uses masculine or feminine pronouns. We're not at liberty to change what the Bible says simply on the basis of political correctness or because we would like the trinity to have a female in it. I don't see it as depending on my choice.

All excellent questions John. The answers should be very interesting.

pk

John317,
My friend, you ignored the questions thereby provided me with no usable answers. You simple made the statement (a logical fallacy) that you have been taught to make by the very church (Catholic and otherwise) that maintains power by the very fact that you make this acknowledgment-that the church is this Woman. This gives the 'church' incredible power because it can then be said (and is) that the church produced Jesus Christ. Your statement that the church is the people of God of all ages is vacuous and fallacious on its face; nowhere has God ever called the Kingdom of Heaven a church. The church is a purely human invention for a purely prurient human motive; that is, power and control over people. Jesus Christ did not come to earth to establish a church, He came to testify to the Truth. The Jerusalem Assembly known as The Way was NOT a church as was defined by Paul. Paul invented the idea of Christianity in order to wrest power away from The Way in Jerusalem, and from the real disciples of Jesus Christ who were the leaders. I challenge you to find any words of Jesus Christ where He said that He came to establish a church of any kind.

As to the humanity of Jesus Christ; His lineage was as you stated, but His genetics, His humanity, is strictly a God thing. If Jesus had any humanly produced (natural) DNA in Him then He would also have sin in Him. This is IMPOSSIBLE because He had to be completely sinless to be able to be our sacrifice. The DNA that became the human body of Jesus was made by the same beings that made the human body of Adam, and in exactly the same way. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit combined to 'give birth' to the human body that became Jesus Christ; Mary was only the surrogate/birth mother, and supplied no genetic material to Jesus.

I have a lineage going back to the Stepps of Russia and East Prussia (there once was a 'von' in front of my last name). However, I am adopted, therefore I am not my parents child. My lineage is my Father's and Mother's, my genetics is completely different than theirs. It is exactly the same in the case of the birth of Jesus. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The parents of Jesus is God (the Father, and the Holy Spirit, Mother). Since Jesus did not come to earth to produce a church there can be no church sufficiently righteous that could produce Him. The 'Real Mother' of Jesus is the Woman of Rev.12 who is seen in Heaven, not on earth. Mary was the surrogate mother of Jesus on earth, used by God so it could be said that Jesus was fully human yet also God. Mary is not in Heaven, and is not, and has never been a Heavenly being. For these reasons I have found that the Woman spoken of in Rev. 12 is the Holy Spirit, the Mother of Jesus Christ, and the Mother of the rest of Her offspring-the brothers and sisters of Jesus; the Mother of whom we must all be born (again) to be able to see and enter the Kingdom of Heaven (John3:3,5).

John317,
God is the family name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that is God with a capitol G. The first and simplest proof is that of a family. Typically a family consists of a father, mother and children. When God created Adam the helper that was made for him came from inside of him (his rib). It appears that the Spirit of God is also in God and in the Son and in us, but is also beside us. Eve was in Adam (flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone) and she was also beside him. Eve is feminine (woman-meaning taken out of man)yet she is every part Adam. I see the relationship of Adam and Eve as that of God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Another consideration is that all words for spirit in Hebrew are feminine gender nouns. In Greek the word pneuma (air-breath) is gender neutral, it may take the gender of what it is describing, but not necessarily.
Another very interesting consideration I discovered while researching the two articles of furniture in the outer court of the temple. I realized that the temple is the visual representation of the plan of salvation and that the laver and altar of burnt offering were representative of the work of salvation on earth. the first part of this process was Christ and His teaching and sacrifice all represented by priests and the sacrifices where the blood was taken into the temple and applied to the horns of the golden altar. Before Jesus returned to His Father He said He would send another Helper (same word used to describe Eve) and that this would be the Spirit of Truth that would lead (teach) into all truth. My interest was in the second article of furniture in the outer court. I was interested to see if there would be anything connecting it to feminine/woman; I was amazed to see that it was.
The Laver, first of all is a basin, the basin or bowl has always been a feminine symbol. I know that this is primarily in paganism, but Satan takes God's symbols and corrupts them. Also I discovered this text you may or may not find it interesting, I did.

Ex 38:8
Moreover, he made the laver of bronze with its base of bronze, from the mirrors of the serving women who served at the doorway of the tent of meeting.

The bronze for the laver was to come from the mirrors of the serving women. These women served the worker who where building the temple, they fed them and gave them water and also fasted and prayed during the construction process. All the bronze used in the outer court, gold was the metal used in the temple, was never specified as to where it was to come, but the bronze laver must be made from the bronze mirrors of the holy women. The mirror reflects the image in front of it. The image that these mirrors would be reflection is the of the serving women. What better representation of the Holy Spirit as giving a feminine reflection of the family of God, the Mother. So in the family of God there is a Father, Mother and Son and we are called to become children of the family of God. The Woman of Revelation 12 gives birth to the Son of God (Her firstborn) and at the end of time She gives birth to the "remnant". In John 3:5 Jesus tells Nicodemus that unless you are born of the water and the Spirit you cannot enter the kingdom of God, thus the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the kingdom, because you enter by being born of Her.

I realize I cannot make you believe what you do not want to believe and I am ok with that. I offer this as explanation of why I believe it.

Yes pkrause, there are some interesting questions that await the answers from John317 and RH. I sure would like to know the name of the church that gave birth to Jesus and will someday have offspring.

But musicman and wayfinder, I seriously doubt if anyone will answer this question.

Ah, the usual suspects are out tonight I see.

Pkrause was talking about your answers DR. LOL

My view is the same as Wayfinder's in this connection; I also recognize that most of you will decide not to acquire my understanding of the nature of the Family of God in Heaven, and that is fine by me. I did this in response to the question of why I believe what I believe. You have my answer, do with it what you will.

And since you reject any and all evidence that refutes your theories, what's the point?

Could you please explain this and give an example?



The words of Jesus are in Greek, those of God in Genesis in Hebrew. Are you sure the words are the same in the original languages?

Just because the word "helper" is in the same in English doesn't mean they refer to someone of the same sex or gender, does it?

In fact, the word that Jesus used for the Holy Spirit was specifically masculine and he used a masculine personal pronoun that can only be understood as "he" or "him."