Overall Question: What role does our love towards God play in our relations with other believers?

Memory Text: 1 John 4:21 CEV “The commandment that God has given us is: "Love God and love each other!"”

Sunday – The Two Passages on Love
1 John 3:11-24 God’s Word to the Nations “11 ¶ The message that you have heard from the beginning is to love each other. 12 Don’t be like Cain. He was a child of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did Cain murder his brother? Because the things Cain did were evil and the things his brother did had God’s approval. 13 Brothers and sisters, don’t be surprised if the world hates you. 14 ¶ We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love other believers. The person who doesn’t grow in love remains in death. 15 Everyone who hates another believer is a murderer, and you know that a murderer doesn’t have eternal life. 16 We understand what love is when we realize that Christ gave his life for us. That means we must give our lives for other believers. 17 Now, suppose a person has enough to live on and notices another believer in need. How can God’s love be in that person if he doesn’t bother to help the other believer? 18 Dear children, we must show love through actions that are sincere, not through empty words. 19 This is how we will know that we belong to the truth and how we will be reassured in his presence. 20 ¶ Whenever our conscience condemns us, we will be reassured that God is greater than our conscience and knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our conscience doesn’t condemn us, we can boldly look to God 22 and receive from him anything we ask. We receive it because we obey his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 ¶ This is his commandment: to believe in his Son, the one named Jesus Christ, and to love each other as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey Christ’s commandments live in God, and God lives in them. We know that he lives in us because he has given us the Spirit.”
1 John 3:15 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES The private malice, the secret grudge, the envy which is cherished in the heart, is murderous in its tendency, and were it not for the outward restraints of human laws, and the dread of punishment, it would often lead to the act of murder. The apostle does not say that he who hates his brother, though he does not in fact commit murder, is guilty to the same degree as if he had actually done it; but he evidently means to say that the spirit which would lead to murder is there, and that God will hold him responsible for it. Nothing is wanting but the removal of outward restraints to lead to the commission of the open deed.
1 John 4:7-5:4 Holman “7 ¶ Dear friends, let us love one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent His One and Only Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 Love consists in this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Dear friends, if God loved us in this way, we also must love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God. If we love one another, God remains in us and His love is perfected in us. 13 This is how we know that we remain in Him and He in us: He has given to us from His Spirit. 14 ¶ And we have seen and we testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God—God remains in him and he in God. 16 And we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him. 17 ¶ In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; for we are as He is in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love. 19 We love because He first loved us. 20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For the person who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this command from Him: the one who loves God must also love his brother. 5:1 ¶ Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born of God, and everyone who loves the parent also loves his child. 2 This is how we know that we love God’s children when we love God and obey His commands. 3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden, 4 because whatever has been born of God conquers the world. This is the victory that has conquered the world: our faith.”
1 John 5:1 COMMENTARY BY MATTHEW HENRY It seems but natural that he who loves the Father should love the children also, and that in some proportion to their resemblance to their Father and to the Father's love to them; and so we must first and principally love the Son of the Father, as he is most emphatically styled, the only (necessarily) begotten, and the Son of his love, and then those that are voluntarily begotten, and renewed by the Spirit of grace.

Monday – Definition of Love
1 John 3:12-16 NRSV “12 We must not be like Cain who was from the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous. 13 Do not be astonished, brothers and sisters, that the world hates you. 14 ¶ We know that we have passed from death to life because we love one another. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 All who hate a brother or sister are murderers, and you know that murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them. 16 We know love by this, that he laid down his life for us—and we ought to lay down our lives for one another.”
1 John 3:14 PEOPLE’S NT COMMENTARY If our hearts are filled with brotherly love this shows that we are God's children; and the opposite is also true.
1 John 4:7-10 20th Century NT “7 ¶ Dear friends, let us love one another, because Love comes from God; and every one who loves has received the new Life from God and knows God. 8 He who does not love has not learned to know God; for God is Love. 9 The love of God was revealed to us by his sending his only Son into the world, that we might find Life through him. 10 His love is seen in this—not in our having loved God, but in his loving us and sending his Son to be an atoning sacrifice for our sins.”
1 John 4:16 20th Century NT “And, moreover, we have learned to know, and have accepted as a fact, the love which God has for us. God is Love; and he who lives in love lives in God, and God in him.”

Tuesday – A Crisis of Assurance
1 John 3:19-21 NLT “19 It is by our actions that we know we are living in the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before the Lord, 20 ¶ even if our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our conscience is clear, we can come to God with bold confidence.”
1 John 3:21 COMMENTARY BY ALBERT BARNES The confidence or boldness which we have towards our Maker is founded solely on the evidence that he will graciously accept us as pardoned sinners; not in the belief that we deserve his favor.
1 John 4:17-18 ESV “17 ¶ By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.”

Wednesday – Love in Practice
1 John 3:17-18 BBE “17 But if a man has this world’s goods, and sees that his brother is in need, and keeps his heart shut against his brother, how is it possible for the love of God to be in him? 18 My little children, do not let our love be in word and in tongue, but let it be in act and in good faith.”
1 John 4:19-21 BBE “19 We have the power of loving, because he first had love for us. 20 If a man says, I have love for God, and has hate for his brother, his words are false: for how is the man who has no love for his brother whom he has seen, able to have love for God whom he has not seen? 21 And this is the word which we have from him, that he who has love for God is to have the same love for his brother.”
1 John 3:16-17 NIV “16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?”
1 John 3:17 COMMENTARY WILLIAM BURKITT’S NOTES ON THE NEW TESTAMENT It is not said, He that has abundance of this world's goods, let him of his great superfluity give; but he that hath this world's goods: that is, in any measure, yea, though he has no more than he works for, yet is he required, Eph 4:28 that worketh with his hands, to give to him that needeth. The world is greatly deceived who thinks charity and almsgiving a duty that only concerns the rich; indeed it concerns them eminently, but not exclusively. And oh! the dreadful account that some rich men have to give, who expend more upon a lust in one day, than they give to the poor in a whole year. But yet, after all, every one that hath this world's goods, though he has but what he labours and sweats for, yet must he in in proportion to what he has, give to him that needeth.

Thursday – Love and the Commandments
1 John 3:22 William NT “and we obtain from Him whatever we ask for, because we practice obedience to His commands and do what pleases Him.”
1 John 3:22 COMMENTARY GENEVA BIBLE NOTES faith in Christ and love one towards another are things joined together.
1 John 3:23 -- Simple English “This is what God commands: that we believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and that we love each other, just as He commanded.”
1 John 3:24 -- New Jerusalem “Whoever keeps his commandments remains in God, and God in him. And this is the proof that he remains in us: the Spirit that he has given us.”
1 John 3:24 COMMENTARY BY WILLIAM BURKITT it is one thing to run to God for refuge in a storm, and another thing to make him our dwelling place at all times, and in all conditions; he that keepeth God's commandments thus dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:21 -- Simple English “God gave us this command: The person who loves God must love his brother, too.”
1 John 5:2 -- New American Standard “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.”
1 John 5:3 -- Living Bible “Loving God means doing what he tells us to do, and really, that isn't hard at all.”
1 John 5:3 COMMENTARY BY ADAM CLARKE The old proverb explains the meaning of the apostle's words, Love feels no loads. Love to God brings strength from God; through his love and his strength, all his commandments are not only easy and light, but pleasant and delightful.

HEY JAMES423

THESE are some good questions


dgrimm60

James423, Is "love" the same as 'grace'? Does not God test those He loves?

Real love would be yelling at your child when you see them playing or running into the street. Therefore, real love would be waking up the sleeping virgins (Matthew 25).

Real love would mean testing everything that is writtin in the New Testament by the words of Jesus as found in John 14:26 and 17:20.

Real love would mean testing everyone who is called a prophet or prophetess by this same test. (Rev. 2:18-)

Real love is testing everyone who calles themself an apostel by this same test. (Rev. 2:2)

Real love would be pointing out the problems.

Real love would be teaching the truth even though most believe a lie.

As moderator:

For Dr. Rich, et. al.,

You've been asked nicely not to hijack all the threads with your favorite theme. Keep it for the private thread.

We on this forum accept the whole Bible, not just some books.

Members who don't cooperate about this will have their posts deleted and they may be banned.

Stop doing it, Dr. Rich. NOW.

Sometimes people in their zeal run to others and wag their finger into the face of their 'brother' or 'sister' don't always chose the most gentle manner of doing so. And the scriptures tell us that we should go quietly to that person and discuss it with them. If they chose not to listen, then a brother or sister or two ought to join the zealous one. Perhaps after hearing both sides of the preceived problem, new insight can be shedded on the case.

I recall when I was a child (more than 50+ years) that there was an organist that the good sisters insisted wore lipstick and the tension and name calling mounted until the woman left the church. She never wore a trace of makeup in her whole life. IMO, some are too quick to judge.

Strange how 'traditions' change. Nowadays ... they would be after her if she didn't wear lipstick.

God's love often looks like 'tough love', doesn't it seem to you?

In what way was love exhibited toward the Israelites when Moses came down from
Sinai and made the people drink their 'other god' and make a choice was to who would be thier
God? No other options were given.

In what way was love shown toward Nadab and Abihu when they sinned by using unauthorized fire before the LORD. When fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD. Moses then said to Aaron, “This is what the LORD spoke of when he said: “Among those who approach me I will show myself holy; in the sight of all the people I will be honored.” When God wouldn’t even let Aaron and the Priests mourn their death (couldn’t even let their hair get messed up). (Though their relatives could mourn them). Leviticus 10:5-and onward

In what way(s) are we to follow that example of dealing with errant brothers and sisters? What are the options?

It seems to me that the concept of 'love' is not generally well defined. We see it as an emotional outpouring of affection. EGW describes it as a 'prinicple'. What's the principle?
On what basis of love do we discipline?, do we comfort?, do we encourage?, do we walk away?

I would love to hear your comments!

We are all "errant brothers and sisters". We are all in the same boat and just need to hear that God died for us and loves us anyway.

Joh 14:21
"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

Is this conditional or unconditional, love?

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Exd 34:7

So you believe that God does not love anyone who commits a sin?

Redwood,
Hey I am asking the questions here.

Excuuuuuse Meeeee . I didn't know you had ownership of this thread. !!!!

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Rev 22:15

wayfinder, the sun is setting here on the east coast. The Sabbath is coming to a close.

And why are you telling us that Richard? Just curious !!

Redwood,
Just kidding about the questions thing.

God loves all of His created beings, even Lucifer, but that will not save Lucifer from execution and it will not save us any more than it will him.

It is that nasty four letter word, obey. If we obey God we demonstrate our love for Him. Adam and Eve loved God, but they disobeyed Him. God loved Adam and Eve, but He had to cast them out of the garden and kill His Son in their place. Those who chose to obey the will of God may receive what Adam and Eve had and much more.

Do you 'obey'?

I do obey, including the fourth commandment. I do not find obedience too difficult.

Mt 11:30
"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

Hmmm. I would not be so bold. To each his own.

Richard,
I have at least two hours of Sabbath left, here on the west coast.

Redwood,
Which one of the Ten Commandments have you broken lately, I dare to say, not a one.

I don't want you to give me an answer, just ask yourself.

Do you keep the Ten Commandments because you want to or feel you have to?

I 'keep' or attempt to keep them pretty much out of selfishness. They are the owners manual from my Creator. I figure He knows what is best.

A secondary reason would be to honor God ... to glorify Him. But in general I am pretty self centered.

God's love is unconditional.

When we chose to stick our fingers into our ears and close our eyes, like spoiled children, we are making the choice to separate ourselves from the Father. He loves us so much that He doesn't force us to comply. But without God there is no life for sin is offensive Father Almighty.

Would this not be considered 'a strange act of God'?

I'm with you up until that last part. What are you referring to as his strange act. It is my understanding that his strange act will be when he finally destroys all those who rejected his offer of salvation.

For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Isa 28:21

Do you think that one could be truely happy in Heaven/Earth made new if they hated God? And after all the 'hell on earth' humans have been through in the last 6000 yrs, He will leave it open to become infested with sin all over again?

Purity will put an end to all darkness, all evil, all sin! Amen.

Amen

One more question!

If you love God, you obey, right? If you love each other, do you obey them?

It dosn't say obey each other.

In what ways, then, is love manifested to each other? John warns against using words only to show love. But how do you show it when you have a serious disagreement with someone? (Do you shut up, say 'whatever', shout in an effort to communicate, give in?) Do you give away all your posessions to help those in need? Do you always put the other person first? What expectations do you have from other Christians who (are supposed to) love you? And why is it so important to love each other, when it is Christ who saves us?

I think sometimes we struggle to 'love each other' because we don't have a clear idea what real love is. God's response to certain sinners doesn't really look much like love to us, and if we place constraints on our children it doesn't always look much like love to them either. Does 'loving' always mean 'letting'? Is the church 'loving' or 'letting' when there is no church discipline, even when people make no attempt to obey God?, or when children 'feel loved' no matter what they do?

Love to hear your comments.

One more comment! Jumping a back a little bit, Richard, Eph. 5:21 does say, "Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Does that put loving in the category of obedience to each other?

When we love Jesus as we should, and put our will and life under his care, love of self and self seeking will begin to slip away. We will begin to care for others in a way that heretofor seemed impossible. It is not something we can generate on our own, but it will happen if we allow ourselves to be controlled by the Holy Spirit.

I don't believe that loving one another is done through obeying each other We love each other because God showed us how much he loved us, by allowing is son to die for us. We love each other because we want to not because we have to. We obey God because we love. So maybe in away we are obeying? But I would say that that obeying is to show God that we love him. Not exactly sure what you mean by obeying, but this is how I see it. Hope you are having a wonderful Sabbath Contented.

pk

I would love to have this discussion in a group! (So it didn't take so long to interact.) I appreciate all the comments! I have another question, How, sepcifically, do you love what you don't like? It's pretty easy to help those who need help if you can, (but what if they take advantage of you, or becomes utterly dependant?) and it's not difficult to help a student who needs help with finances, (but what if they won't help themselves, or waste the funds?) What if someone has destroyed your reputation without cause, or ruined all your dreams for something? How do you manifest love for and/or toward those people? Do you keep on giving? Do you keep on 'letting', or should love take on a different dmeanor? You know, - stop 'turning the other cheek', or giving your coat also? Or would that mean you are no longer 'loving'?

I've taught children for a long time, and I'm certain that 'loving' and/or 'letting' can really create 'learned helplessness'. Expectations from someone can become immense, and still they don't feel 'loved'. Often that person never learns to return the favor either to you or to other people. They, themselves, become incapable of 'loving'.

What I think the question still is; What does loving one another really mean in reality? And how do you do it? I'm sure I don't have all the answers, and there are situations when I would much rather withdraw than deal with it, but silence yields it's own distress for you and for others.

What's your ideas?

This is very difficult. People can be so unloving. But if we have experienced God's love for you when you are SO undeserving .... then you would only wish for the same to happen for all of God's children.

Not saying that I have accomplished this yet. But this is what I try to put foremost in my mind. I hope it helps you.

I really like the memory text this week. But, I am afraid that this is one commandment I won't be keeping as I should. The lesson defined love as the willingness to do as Christ did and to die for a stranger. I'm afraid I lack that kind of love. Oh don't get me wrong. I believe that Christ is able to give it to us. But I don't see anyone with it walking around. I see a lot of the opposite unfortunately.

Yes Redwood and in the Christian Church more than anywhere it seems sometimes. Its strange because if your in the military and you in a war zone, and you don't really know the guy next to you, but you are willing to die for that person. Not necessarily because you love that person.

pk

Yes. I assume that military training instills that. If only we as Christians could be instilled with it in peace time experiences.

Yeah I know what you mean. The funny thing is, doesn't Paul speak about that, saying that we are at war and to put the full garmet of the Lord on?

pk

Cool thought. That is the attitude that we need to have.

Growing up with a less than loving mother was very difficult. Knowing I should respect her, HOW, was nearly inconceivable.

I had just gone through an episode when my Dad arrived. Placing his arm around me, he stated..."The Bible tells us to turn the other cheek. BUT when we have be struck again, there is no advice."


I have wrestled with this many years. It has only been this past month that I felt it important to forgive her even though she has been dead for more than 30 years. I did manage to feel relief afterwards and I thanked Father for the inspiration to do so and to lift that burden off of my heart.

Yes, even if it eats at you. It is better than saying something you wish you could take back.

Today in SS, one mentioned that women tend to express love for others esp women that come to the house to visit and offer moral encouragement.

I resented that remark as for most of my life I have never been one to express 'love' for others verbally. It was like a committment right there. Perhaps it is age catching up but in the last 10 years, I really make the attempt to always tell others of my feelings for them.

Sometimes it is like a rattlesnake and swings around to bite me on the back side, but losing so many members of my family, it became important that the words were issued.

While words are important, actions are more so. Visit people in hospital or prison. Help the neighbor who is sick. Jesus told us in the Book that it is as helping and visiting Him. AND sometimes we will be the closest thing to Heaven for those folks.

What a wonderful discussion on this lesson! There is no question that we all have a lot to learn about 'loving'.

The Sabbath is just closing here, (as in the comment somewhere near the beginning of this discussion) and I couldn't help remembering when I was growing up, my Dad would climb with us to a mountain top on Sabbath afternoon, and as the sun went down we would sing:

Day is Dying in the West,
Heaven is touching earth with rest,
Wait and worship while the night
Sets her evening lamps alight
Through all the sky

Holy, Holy, Holy
Lord God of Hosts
Heaven and Earth are full of thee
Oh Lord Most High

The earth is full of our Lord Most High, and He is love! Which rather fills our earth with His love, does't it? - Would to God that we knew how to show it to each other! There is no surer way of weakening spirituality than by cherishing envy, suspicion, faultfinding, and evil surmising. (We sabotage ourselves!) When "very close and tender should be the tie that binds us together". Divine love makes its most touching appeals to the heart when it calls upon us to manifest the same tender compassion that Christ manifested. That man only who has unselfish love for his brother has true love for God. The true Christian will not willingly permit the soul in peril and need to to unwarned, uncared for. He will not hold himself aloof from the erring...ever manifesting a pure, unselfish interest in one another's welfare. The unconsecrated heart cannot originate or product it. AA pp. 549-551 (in bits and pieces).

ChildofChrist, I thrill with your victory in forgiveness. What a victoy! May God give you the benediction of new peace for the rest of your life!

Guess it's time to move on to a new topic. See you there.

This is one of the best lessons I've seen in a long while. My wife and I had a good time reading and discussing it together. Didn't make it to church so I had to settle for the wife and this discussion here.

Arguing with the pastor is never a good idea. :)

pk