#310479 - 2009-12-19 20:40:24
EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
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Learning to take it to Jesus
Registered: 2009-04-01
Posts: 7551
Loc: Same as home church
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there is no "family" forum so this seemed the most appropriate place since it does "touch the lives of postmoderns". but i do warn all her counsels will make most of us who chose to be parents quite uncomfortable. i know they make me feel like hiding under a rock. there are very few who are stable, healthy individuals well-able to raise healthy, stable children. In the first place, B should not have committed so great a crime as to bring into being children that reason must teach him would be diseased because they must receive a miserable legacy from their parents. .... {2T 379.2}
He has made a life of misery for his wife, and has accumulated misery by having children born to them. Some of them exist, and that is about all. {2T 380.1}
Those professing to be Christians should not enter the marriage relation until the matter has been carefully and prayerfully considered from an elevated standpoint to see if God can be glorified by the union. Then they should duly consider the result of every privilege of the marriage relation, and sanctified principle should be the basis of every action. Before increasing their family, they should take into consideration whether God would be glorified or dishonored by their bringing children into the world. They should seek to glorify God by their union from the first, and during every year of their married life. They should calmly consider what provision can be made for their children.
They have no right to bring children into the world to be a burden to others.
Have they a business that they can rely upon to sustain a family so that they need not become a burden to others? If they have not,
they commit a crime in bringing children into the world to suffer for want of proper care, food, and clothing. In this fast, corrupt age these things are not considered. Lustful passion bears sway and will not submit to control, although feebleness, misery, and death are the result of its reign. Women are forced to a life of hardship, pain, and suffering because of the uncontrollable passions of men who bear the name of husband-- more rightly could they be called brutes. Mothers drag out a miserable existence, with children in their arms nearly all the time, managing every way to put bread into their mouths and clothes upon their backs. Such accumulated misery fills the world. {2T 380.2}
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2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
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#310493 - 2009-12-19 20:48:29
Re: EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
[Re: teresaq(sda)]
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Registered: 2000-03-24
Posts: 27295
Loc: Deltona,FL,USA
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there is no "family" forum so this seemed the most appropriate place since it does "touch the lives of postmoderns". but i do warn all her counsels will make most of us who chose to be parents quite uncomfortable. i know they make me feel like hiding under a rock. there are very few who are stable, healthy individuals well-able to raise healthy, stable children. In the first place, B should not have committed so great a crime as to bring into being children that reason must teach him would be diseased because they must receive a miserable legacy from their parents. .... {2T 379.2}
He has made a life of misery for his wife, and has accumulated misery by having children born to them. Some of them exist, and that is about all. {2T 380.1}
Those professing to be Christians should not enter the marriage relation until the matter has been carefully and prayerfully considered from an elevated standpoint to see if God can be glorified by the union. Then they should duly consider the result of every privilege of the marriage relation, and sanctified principle should be the basis of every action. Before increasing their family, they should take into consideration whether God would be glorified or dishonored by their bringing children into the world. They should seek to glorify God by their union from the first, and during every year of their married life. They should calmly consider what provision can be made for their children.
They have no right to bring children into the world to be a burden to others.
Have they a business that they can rely upon to sustain a family so that they need not become a burden to others? If they have not,
they commit a crime in bringing children into the world to suffer for want of proper care, food, and clothing. In this fast, corrupt age these things are not considered. Lustful passion bears sway and will not submit to control, although feebleness, misery, and death are the result of its reign. Women are forced to a life of hardship, pain, and suffering because of the uncontrollable passions of men who bear the name of husband-- more rightly could they be called brutes. Mothers drag out a miserable existence, with children in their arms nearly all the time, managing every way to put bread into their mouths and clothes upon their backs. Such accumulated misery fills the world. {2T 380.2} Interesting advice I'd say, tough and to the point. pk
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phk
"And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." John F Kennedy
"Government is the enemy, until you need a friend". Bill Cohen
Many people consider the things government does for them to be social progress but they regard the things government does for others as socialism. Earl Warren
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#310686 - 2009-12-20 06:53:38
Re: EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
[Re: pkrause]
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*nods emphatically*
Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
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Why do those quotations apply to everyone? They were specific counsel to people, and it seems that they were not the best off people, either.
If you're not living in poverty or have some terrible hereditary disease (which she was upset at those people for bringing children into), I wouldn't be concerned about it being so sinful to have children.
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"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
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#310807 - 2009-12-20 13:42:53
Re: EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
[Re: Woody]
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Learning to take it to Jesus
Registered: 2009-04-01
Posts: 7551
Loc: Same as home church
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How little is the destiny of the child considered. The gratification of passion is the only thought, and burdens are brought upon the wife and mother which undermine her vitality, and paralyze her spiritual power. In broken health and with discouraged spirits, she finds herself surrounded by a little flock when she cannot care for as she should. Lacking the instruction they should have, they grow up to dishonor God and to communicate to others the evil of their own natures, and thus an army is raised up whom Satan manages as he pleases. {RH, October 25, 1892 par. 11}
Parents, lay hold upon divine help, and bring no more children into the world than those to whom you can give a training and education that will fit them for this life and the life which is to come. {RH, October 25, 1892 par. 12}
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2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
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#311685 - 2009-12-22 00:31:47
Re: EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
[Re: teresaq(sda)]
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Learning to take it to Jesus
Registered: 2009-04-01
Posts: 7551
Loc: Same as home church
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The question to be settled by you is, "Am I raising a family of children to strengthen the influence and swell the ranks of the powers of darkness, or am I bringing up children for Christ?" {AH 163.4}
If you do not govern your children and mold their characters to meet the requirements of God, then the fewer children there are to suffer from your defective training the better it will be for you, their parents, and the better it will be for society. Unless children can be trained and disciplined from their babyhood by a wise and judicious mother who is conscientious and intelligent, and who rules her household in the fear of the Lord, molding and shaping their characters to meet the standard of righteousness, it is a sin to increase your family. God has given you reason, and He requires you to use it. {AH 164.1}
Fathers and mothers, when you know that you are deficient in a knowledge of how to train your children for the Master, why do you not learn your lessons? Why do you continue to bring children into the world to swell the numbers in Satan's ranks? Is God pleased with this showing? When you see that a large family will severely tax your resources, when you see that it is giving the mother her hands full of children, and that she has not time intervening between their births to do the work every mother needs to do, why do you not consider the sure result? Every child draws upon the vitality of the mother, and when fathers and mothers do not use their reason in this matter, what chance is given to parents or children to be properly disciplined? The Lord calls upon parents to consider this matter in the light of future eternal realities. {AH 164.2}
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2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
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#314883 - 2009-12-29 03:29:48
Re: EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
[Re: teresaq(sda)]
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Registered: 2002-02-22
Posts: 3575
Loc: CA
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Fathers and mothers, when you know that you are deficient in a knowledge of how to train your children for the Master, why do you not learn your lessons? Why do you continue to bring children into the world to swell the numbers in Satan's ranks? Is God pleased with this showing? When you see that a large family will severely tax your resources, when you see that it is giving the mother her hands full of children, and that she has not time intervening between their births to do the work every mother needs to do, why do you not consider the sure result? Every child draws upon the vitality of the mother, and when fathers and mothers do not use their reason in this matter, what chance is given to parents or children to be properly disciplined? The Lord calls upon parents to consider this matter in the light of future eternal realities. {AH 164.2} Did Ellen White consider her own counsel before bringing children into the world? Considering her writing, lecturing, and traveling schedule, I would think the tax on her physical resources would have been considerable. And evidently it was, based on the large volume of personal letters complaining of such. Now I think its a good idea to consider one's resources before having children, but I think we can appeal to reason and leave off all the doom and gloom. These so called counsels exaggerate both the good and the bad in this epic sounding, spirit killing, ego driven drivel. Now really, "SWELL the numbers in Satan's ranks?" This is the language of con men. She sounds closer to the wizard in the Land of Oz telling us to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, than some wise sage.
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#315299 - 2009-12-30 00:20:55
Re: EGW Counsels on Bringing Children into the World
[Re: cardw]
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Learning to take it to Jesus
Registered: 2009-04-01
Posts: 7551
Loc: Same as home church
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thank you for sharing that. :)
_________________________
2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
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