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#329566 - 2010-02-01 09:15:11 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: bonnie]
Avinoam Offline
Beginning to post a bit...

Registered: 2010-01-29
Posts: 19
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: bonnie


Your opening post blasted a poster who posted the military tribute.
You may consider it inconsiderate,the good thing is you do not have to read the military tribute.

I don't doubt adventists have been caught in the acts of war. Were those acts of war targeting and singling out adventists? I rather doubt that.

Every article I have read so far,with the exception of the communist and socialist websites have said pretty much the same thing.

And the american military did this?? I am sorry you had to go thru that but I have read where the other side made the same claims.

What you claim to see and what others writing about it claim are opposites. Atrocities by the "Butcher of the Balkans" rivals and many times far exceeds the atrocities from the other side.

You blame americans,that is your right. It is my right as well as others to not accept what you are saying as fact.
I am proud of our troops. You do not have to agree,but a little backup for your accusations would be nice


Bonnie,

I am doing my PhD in American Foreign Policy. I will be teaching this subject at university level in a couple of years. You are more than welcomed to enrol. Until then my only advice to you is: be humble, read broadly, research, THINK CRITICALLY, and learn. I chuckle every time when I see you mentioning some articles and websites. If you want to understand what is going on in a certain conflict area and what the economical, political, cultural, and historical implications are, you need to do extensive research. You can't just Google things and throw it in here as if it would mean something! Phrases like "Butcher of the Balkans" have been invented by the yellow press in order to explain very complex issues to people who cannot read longer than 5 minutes per day. They are aimed at simple-minded people who refuse to think for themselves. They polarise. They stir emotions on the most primitive level. They do not provide a sufficient depth of analysis of any issues in question because that is not their purpose.

The problem is I cannot debate with you because my knowledge in American politics supersedes yours by far. Do you understand what I mean? Talking to you is like explaining mechanical systems to a five-year old. Please don't take this as an insult but rather a stimulus to find out more about it.

PS. If reading it too hard, try this, for a starter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs


Edited by Avinoam (2010-02-01 09:54:24)

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#329571 - 2010-02-01 09:33:09 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: pkrause]
Avinoam Offline
Beginning to post a bit...

Registered: 2010-01-29
Posts: 19
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: pkrause

I have to agree with Bonnie on this. Have not heard of any other country being condemned for anything but the USA. And also agree with Pam that if not for the USA many, many more would've died in the struggles of all the peoples of the former Yugoslavia. And besides that we did not just come in there are bomb without being asked.

pk


Well if that is the case then I can only conclude you don't have a library in your town, or any form of media access. The governments of all European countries which are currently in Iraq and Afghanistan are being condemned for their participation in the war. Condemned by the public, by various organisations, by political parties, etc. Israel is being condemned on regular basis for its military operation in Gaza and WB. Iraq was condemned for invading Kuwait, the U.S. for invading Iraq, Iran and Syria for aiding financial help to the Hizballah, etc etc the list goes on.

Evidence suggests that if it were not for the USA policy towards Yugoslavia in the 1970s and 1980s and a subsequent joined U.S.-German policy in the early 1990s, the conflict would have never even taken place. There is also overwhelming evidence that if it weren’t for Clinton, Albright, Clark, Walker, and Holbrook, just a name a few, the conflict in 1999 would have never occurred.

And lastly, you were not asked to drop bombed on any sovereign state. You did so because it was in your interest. You did so because it is part of your policy. Only in recent history you have manipulated the public several times, first in Rambouillet and then prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

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#329572 - 2010-02-01 09:53:11 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: Avinoam]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
Avinoam: "These guys are not heroes, they are nothing but a forces of destruction in the service of various neo-colonialist, murdering U.S. administrations."


I don't care to enter into this fray ... BUT:

It used to be acceptable to call our president a murderer ... then entered Obama. Since he has been president it has been against the rules of this forum to state such things.

I hope a word to the wise is sufficient.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#329593 - 2010-02-01 11:19:29 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: Avinoam]
bonnie Offline


Registered: 2001-06-20
Posts: 8896
Loc: MN
Quote:

I am doing my PhD in American Foreign Policy. I will be teaching this subject at university level in a couple of years. You are more than welcomed to enrol. Until then my only advice to you is: be humble, read broadly, research, THINK CRITICALLY, and learn.


Your view of history may be impressive to you but you sound a lot like the immigrants from the former Soviet Union that I worked for.
They were also very well educated in their home country.Their reverence and hero worship of Lenin was a result of that education.Any and all negative concerning Lenin was disregarded as deliberately false.





Quote:
I chuckle every time when I see you mentioning some articles and websites. If you want to understand what is going on in a certain conflict area and what the economical, political, cultural, and historical implications are, you need to do extensive research. You can't just Google things and throw it in here as if it would mean something! Phrases like "Butcher of the Balkans" have been invented by the yellow press in order to explain very complex issues to people who cannot read longer than 5 minutes per day.


Hate to disillusion you but much of what I have looked up on this subject takes far more than five minutes. I have found articles that speak favorably of "the Butcher of the Balkans" but they come from communist and socialist websites and writings.I don't spend a lot of time with those endorsing that ideology.



Quote:
They are aimed at simple-minded people who refuse to think for themselves. They polarise. They stir emotions on the most primitive level. They do not provide a sufficient depth of analysis of any issues in question because that is not their purpose.


Read something almost word for word as to what you have posted.All coming from communist or socialist ideology

Quote:
The problem is I cannot debate with you because my knowledge in American politics supersedes yours by far. Do you understand what I mean? Talking to you is like explaining mechanical systems to a five-year old. Please don't take this as an insult but rather a stimulus to find out more about it.

Again the common theme I have been reading in the communist propaganda is the "common man" really can't understand.Looks like your "education" has been complete

Quote:
PS. If reading it too hard, try this, for a starter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEzOgpMWnVs


There is a common theme on this forum to wring hands over sarcastic or toxic posts. Interesting the new standards that are acceptable for some and condemned in poor taste for others.
But to respond to your sarcastic and toxic posts,yes I am capable of reading.
Because we disagree on what information means you are doing a fine job of rising to the new standard.

I did check out your very informative you tube link and many off of that.
What I found is someone that is of the "progressive ideology"
I don't subscribe to that as it is a sanitary term for socialist/communist/marxist leanings.
_________________________
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE".'

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#329599 - 2010-02-01 11:35:49 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: bonnie]
Avinoam Offline
Beginning to post a bit...

Registered: 2010-01-29
Posts: 19
Loc: UK
Bonnie,

I live in the United Kingdom. I have my bachelor and magister artium from British universities and I am doing my PhD in United Kingdom.

Most of the literature I quote is from academic American, European, and other authors. You would not pass one single module in your first year of university if you use the internet as your main source of information. If you accuse me again of some weird communist/socialist leaning, I will again just copy and paste what I have already written in this post. Here's the summary:

1.) Websites/articles/blogs as reference: No. Not allowed. It will not be marked.

2.) Peer reviewed journals, university press, universally accepted academic literature: Yes. Allowed. Use it.


P.S. How ironical that you are talking about 'hero-worship' considering I am arguing AGAINST YOUR worship of America and American military troops. In contrast I have not spoken once in favour of any political leaders at all.

Again my advice to you: educate yourself.

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#329604 - 2010-02-01 11:57:12 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: Avinoam]
bonnie Offline


Registered: 2001-06-20
Posts: 8896
Loc: MN
Quote:


I live in the United Kingdom. I have my bachelor and magister artium from British universities and I am doing my PhD in United Kingdom.

Most of the literature I quote is from academic American, European, and other authors. You would not pass one single module in your first year of university if you use the internet as your main source of information. If you accuse me again of some weird communist/socialist leaning, I will again just copy and paste what I have already written in this post. Here's the summary:


Your summary and list of what can and cannot be posted really does not mean a lot. The youtube you posted featuring Michael Parenti says about all that needs to be said about your political leanings.
He is a progressive and that is code word for at least socialism

Quote:
1.) Websites/articles/blogs as reference: No. Not allowed. It will not be marked.

You do not have the power or suthority to "allow me or anyone else" to do anything.

Quote:
2.) Peer reviewed journals, university press, universally accepted academic literature: Yes. Allowed. Use it.

As in Michael Parenti? Get down off your high horse and thinking you can say what is or is not allowed

Quote:
P.S. How ironical that you are talking about 'hero-worship' considering I am arguing AGAINST YOUR worship of America and American military troops. In contrast I have not spoken once in favour of any political leaders at all.


No,this started with a tribute to our military. Giving our military a tribute is not hero worship.You don't like the american military,that really is unfortunate. Your use of allow as to what can be posted explains your offensive first post on this topic.

The military men and women give many time the ultimate price.They will be honored with or without you "allowing" it.
As for worship of america,I firmly believe that God had his hand in the settling of this land.I believe the writing of our constitution reflected God's influence on those men. For it's time it was way ahead of time by more than 200 years.
Was or is it always right? NOPE,Does it always do everything for the best of reasons? I don't think so.
What you have spoken of is a scathing condemntaion and denouncing everything that disagrees with a progressive as Michael Parenti.
Offering nothing except what you see as your superior education and intelligence.
Actually going so far as to announce what you will and will not allow.




Again my advice to you: educate yourself.

[/quote]
_________________________
'I'll keep my God, my freedom, my gun and my money. You can keep "THE CHANGE".'

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#329608 - 2010-02-01 12:01:48 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: Avinoam]
rudywoofs Offline
who?


Registered: 2005-07-15
Posts: 7601
Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

And as for Avinoam who stated:

I hope he never feels the need to come to the United States or use any products or manufactured goods, or services from the U.S. As far as I'm concerned, to be very blunt, he's not welcome here.


Quote:
Good thing I dont depend on your hospitality, my Adventist brother. And anyway, I certainly do not need any of your U.S. products or services because there are still plenty of other economies. Btw, the rest of the world has managed to survive just fine even before 1776.


I am *not* your Adventist brother. And you certainly seemed to have managed just fine in the UK. Good thing nothing you use comes from the US.

And it's good to know that the world was not a bloodbath before 1776, and no wars had ever been fought and people lived in harmony with each other.

If you think
Originally Posted By: Avinoam
These guys are not heroes, they are nothing but a forces of destruction in the service of various neo-colonialist, murdering U.S. administrations.
is PhD quality thinking, then I don't put a penny's worth of value into your dissertation. You might try some on-line Universities that sell PhD's. Save you some money. .... Oh..my mistake. You seem to have quite a bit of money and live quite well now.

And BTW, if we hadn't bombed Germany and nuked Hiroshima, we would all, includiing YOU, would be speaking German today.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
_________________________
Pam

There's no point in burying a hatchet if you're going to put up a marker on the site.
~ Sydney Harris

He who speaks the truth, often talks to himself.
~ Mexican proverb

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#329611 - 2010-02-01 12:13:27 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: rudywoofs]
rudywoofs Offline
who?


Registered: 2005-07-15
Posts: 7601
Originally Posted By: Avinoam
The problem is I cannot debate with you because my knowledge in American politics supersedes yours by far.


Your comment was not only rude but narcissistic as hell; you don't know *what* Bonnie, nor I for that matter, know about American politics. But I have no interest whatsoever in debating American politics with you.

This thread was begun as a Tribute to the American Military. If you do not like it, don't watch it. But please don't turn it into a histrionic vendetta against the United States.

Yes, please educate yourself better.
_________________________
Pam

There's no point in burying a hatchet if you're going to put up a marker on the site.
~ Sydney Harris

He who speaks the truth, often talks to himself.
~ Mexican proverb

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#329614 - 2010-02-01 12:33:20 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: rudywoofs]
Avinoam Offline
Beginning to post a bit...

Registered: 2010-01-29
Posts: 19
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: rudywoofs
Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

And as for Avinoam who stated:

I hope he never feels the need to come to the United States or use any products or manufactured goods, or services from the U.S. As far as I'm concerned, to be very blunt, he's not welcome here.


Quote:
Good thing I dont depend on your hospitality, my Adventist brother. And anyway, I certainly do not need any of your U.S. products or services because there are still plenty of other economies. Btw, the rest of the world has managed to survive just fine even before 1776.


I am *not* your Adventist brother. And you certainly seemed to have managed just fine in the UK. Good thing nothing you use comes from the US.

And it's good to know that the world was not a bloodbath before 1776, and no wars had ever been fought and people lived in harmony with each other.

If you think
Originally Posted By: Avinoam
These guys are not heroes, they are nothing but a forces of destruction in the service of various neo-colonialist, murdering U.S. administrations.
is PhD quality thinking, then I don't put a penny's worth of value into your dissertation. You might try some on-line Universities that sell PhD's. Save you some money. .... Oh..my mistake. You seem to have quite a bit of money and live quite well now.

And BTW, if we hadn't bombed Germany and nuked Hiroshima, we would all, includiing YOU, would be speaking German today.


Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


Haha, brilliant. Thank you for saving my life and providing the opportunity to speak English! My Adventist brother.


Edited by Avinoam (2010-02-01 12:37:35)

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#329619 - 2010-02-01 12:47:25 Re: A Tribute to our Military [Re: rudywoofs]
Avinoam Offline
Beginning to post a bit...

Registered: 2010-01-29
Posts: 19
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: rudywoofs
Originally Posted By: Avinoam
The problem is I cannot debate with you because my knowledge in American politics supersedes yours by far.


Your comment was not only rude but narcissistic as hell; you don't know *what* Bonnie, nor I for that matter, know about American politics. But I have no interest whatsoever in debating American politics with you.

This thread was begun as a Tribute to the American Military. If you do not like it, don't watch it. But please don't turn it into a histrionic vendetta against the United States.

Yes, please educate yourself better.


It's not a 'historic vendetta', whatever that means, it's a critical examination of the American foregin policy since 1945.

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