If it was 'the same' we would never have seasons, and I think the sabbath would be at the same time for everyone. (in the same time zone)

This is a question that I would like to ask Bravus. You said that no tilt would mean no seasons and very hot and cold regions. I'm wondering if the earth were tilted twice as much to say 50+ degrees would that mean a much larger temperate zone?

Thanks,
Don

Apparently the flood threw everything out of whack. Some believe that it was caused by Mars getting too close to the earth. Before then, a year was 360 days, and there was no tilt.

Good question, Don. I think to some extent it might, but the amount of sunlight coming in is constant, so there are limits - and the seasons would be much more extreme. Think Alaska or Norway in winter and hotter than Central Australia in summer...

The way the earth is now is actually *extremely* well adapted for life. I think God knows that, which is why I think it was this way from the start. A vertical axis requires a heap of ad hoc tweaks to work at all, while 23 degrees works great.

Stan, nope, we'd still be having time zones - that's about the earth's daily rotation on its axis, not yearly rotation around the sun...

Tallmark... where in the Bible do we find any of that stuff? The creation story is specific enough to mention when plants are made but the same book of the Bible doesn't bother to mention a close call with Mars?

There is also the role of the firmament - whatever that was. Some creationists have made a vapor-type of canopy and played with computer models to see what that would do. There is speculation that such a canopy would have evened out temperatures across the globe.

That would be what I meant by 'ad hoc tweaks'.

It's creating a solution to a non-problem: we have no evidence at all, Biblical or otherwise, that the axis was ever perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic ('upright') and there's no reason to assume it was except perhaps our innate sense of neatness. So we assume it was, for no reason, then have to solve the problem we just created.

I have never come across this idea of the flood causing the Earth's axis to tilt in any of what I have seen. I have heard it mentioned before in Adventist circles but only by lay people. Doing a Google search I did find these links.

The Pre-Flood 360 Day Calendar & the Second Coming


The Hydroplate Theory: An Overview

I don't know how widely held these theories are within creationist circles. As I mentioned, I haven't seen them in print in any of the published material I have read.

:)


Dear Alex,

I very much commend you on your interest in this area of research! Congratulations!






Re the ‘axis of the earth’ and ‘axis shift…’

As for me, I have found it extremely fruitful and satisfying to study into this line of research over the years of my lifetime. Perhaps I may suggest some of my most favorite authors and books for further stimulating thought and enlightenment?:

• 
  1. Earth in Upheaval by Immanuel Velikovsky
  
  2. Pole Shift by John White
  
  3. Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky

I think that if you were to read those books and in that order you’d be getting the most satisfaction out of them. And in my book that is no small understatement…!

Please enjoy!

……




Re the word ‘firmament’ and more…

As to Genesis 1, verses 3 and 6 - and these thoughts of mine are not based on any of the above references - I believe we are all too much underestimating the scope of what the creation there recorded was all about. I believe that I can make the most out of the creation story by recognizing that verse 3 pertains to the creation of all electro-magnetic radiation, that is, where ‘light,’ as we generally think of it, is merely that part of the spectrum that happens to be visible to the eyes of men, and that verse 6 pertains to the precipitation of a liquid phase out of an initially all steam and rapidly expanding universe that was, accordingly, also very rapidly cooling down. That is, the ‘firmament’ represent the boundary layer between the gaseous phase and between the liquid phase, more familiar perhaps to most of us in terms of the word ‘surface’ as in ‘the surface of the water…’

Backing up to verse 1, that is Genesis 1:1, and considering more closely the real essence of the Hebrew words corresponding to ‘heaven’ and ‘earth,’ I believe I am getting closest to the truth of the matter by looking at the Hebrew word for ‘heaven,’ not as ‘shamajim’ but as ‘shemim,’ that is, the masculine plural of the singular ‘shem’ meaning ‘name, title, word…,’ that is, an abstract symbol representing something real in the physical world of substance. That is, to me, the first thing God created, ‘heaven,’ was the plan of action before the action itself, not excluding the claiming of title and copyrights to the results of all of that. The ‘earth’ then, being referenced in Genesis 1:1, would be that something which is nothing less than the medium within which the waves of electro-magnetism travel. An old, somewhat obsolete, term for that medium, that substance, that ‘earth’ would be ‘the ether.’ I believe the most advanced science today, within this area of research, have revived these ideas of old, but that they are using another word than ‘ether’ to describe that very solid medium within which electromagnetic particles are traveling.

As you can see, it follows that on the third day of creation a third phase appeared, solids, and as soon as solids could and did exist, then the essence of life could also be brought into existence, that is, such matter, such solids, as DNA, amino acids, proteins, fats, carbohydrates, and all such other fundamental building blocks of life as are necessary for every living cell and for grass, herbs, and trees to come into being (verse 11.)

Now, that having been said, what is more natural than for the further precipitation of matter to produce ever larger bodies of solids, that is, such as are being described by the words ‘the greater light… the lesser light… [and] the stars…’ (verse 16.)

Praise the Lord, him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters, Yahweh Elohim, our Creator, owner, Savior, and Redeemer!

Peace to all our families and homes,

Tree of Life ©



:)

Scientist are saying the recent 8.8 Quake moved the earth 3" off its axis and shortened the day by a few millionths. The land under the city was lifted up by 6 feet. Makes one wonder about some of the past quakes, before measurements, did to the earth. Mother nature seems to able to alter this planet very easily.

So Co from this info it kind of says to me at least that the flood could've put the axis of the earth on a tilt. Since I would guess that when waters came from under the earth they were probably quite a number of earthquakes and maybe as big or bigger that 8.8?

pk