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#340825 - 2010-03-02 23:43:02 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: jasd]
rudywoofs Offline
who?


Registered: 2005-07-15
Posts: 7601
Substituting the word "astrology" for "astronomy" still strikes me as being funny. But, then, I have a warped sense of humor...comes from working nights for too many years in the ER.
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There's no point in burying a hatchet if you're going to put up a marker on the site.
~ Sydney Harris

He who speaks the truth, often talks to himself.
~ Mexican proverb

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#340842 - 2010-03-03 01:09:03 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: lazarus]
LifeHiscost Online   usa


Registered: 2003-06-14
Posts: 7861
Loc: Western United States
Originally Posted By: lazarus
Originally Posted By: olger
But science, with it's methodological reliance on induction, can never produce truth.
0g


Can never produce truth? Really? Never? Perhaps you would like to revise that.


It was my understanding that science was designed to find truth, not produce it. It is to their shame they(the scientists) have chosen to eliminate truth as reality unless it could be smelled, tasted, felt, seen, heard, or tasted.
peace
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#340846 - 2010-03-03 01:23:01 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: karl]
LifeHiscost Online   usa


Registered: 2003-06-14
Posts: 7861
Loc: Western United States
Originally Posted By: karl
Originally Posted By: Bravus
There hasn't yet been a vote on the amended bill, so I guess we'll see. I concede that the word 'mandated' may be too strong, and 'encouraged' would have been a better choice. That's kind of off topic though.

The point is simply that I was lamenting the scientific ignorance on display. I was *not* making any argument pro or con about climate change. You grabbed the wrong end of the stick from the start and just kept on running with it.


Are you, or are you not, an educator, Bravus?

Do you do this to your students? Just throw something up on the board with your only comment being the broad stroke condemnation, "Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon?" and then come down on your students when they start discussing the conclusion of the author in the article that YOU posted?

Here is the concluding paragraph:
Quote:
Yesterday, the South Dakota Senate passed by a vote of 18-17 an amended version of the resolution which eliminates most of the anti-science conspiracy theories, but still asserts that the “global warming debate” has “prejudiced the scientific investigation of global climatic change phenomena.” The amended version now “returns to the House for approval.” (HT: Thoughts From Kansas


Note that the objection in the concluding paragraph of the author is not what the legislators took out, but what they left in - about the global warming debate. And I, and all those scientists I posted early in this thread, agree with what the legislators left in the Bill.

So, please acknowledge that I was addressing the conclusion of the author in the article at the link YOU provided to start the thread and, subsequently, the open derision on TRMS link provided by Neil. In my opinion, if you weren't trying to ridicule those who are opposed to the unproven theory that man's miniscule contribution to greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is causing warming of the planet, you did an extremely poor job of distancing yourself from those who were.

And, incidentally, the substitution of the word "astrology" for "astronomy" is a linguistic error which does not mandate your conclusion that it is accompanied by "scientific ignorance."

catslap catslap catslap tomato tomato tomato pillowfight pillowfight pillowfight poke poke poke
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#340860 - 2010-03-03 03:31:37 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: LifeHiscost]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13739
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Satellite photos of icebergs floating in newly melted oceans on Mars? Linkage please! Far as I know there's still a fair bit of uncertainty that there's water on Mars at all, let alone oceans of the stuff...
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#340861 - 2010-03-03 03:35:45 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: Bravus]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13739
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
And karl, I am an educator in relation to my students, but do not stand in that role in relation to you. We are equal interlocutors having a discussion, that's all. I started the discussion by lamenting the state of science education in the US, a country that since the push just after Sputnik has led the world in science and technology. As stimulus for that discussion I juxtaposed a thread title and a link to an article with no further comment. Perhaps I should have been more explicit, but I do like to assume people will read and choose. And yeah, I guess it was quite legitimate of you to take the debate off in another direction: but attacking me for views I never held or expounded wasn't something I was going to just sit still for.
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#340862 - 2010-03-03 03:38:14 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: Bravus]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13739
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
The thread title was also not intended as an insult to or attack on America. Although I'm an old leftie librul I am *not* reflexively anti-American. America is the world's sole current superpower, and it's going into a decline and fall, at least in part because of this lack of attention to science. How many science PhDs graduated in America last year? And how many in China?

I want America to get it together some time real soon!
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#340886 - 2010-03-03 10:50:06 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: Bravus]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: Bravus
The thread title was also not intended as an insult to or attack on America. Although I'm an old leftie librul I am *not* reflexively anti-American. America is the world's sole current superpower, and it's going into a decline and fall, at least in part because of this lack of attention to science. How many science PhDs graduated in America last year? And how many in China?

I want America to get it together some time real soon!


I would like to see our educators go back to the basics. No doubt many of South Dakota's legislators went to school, and looking at the bill they proposed it is obvious some of them did not receive a very good education in English.

The most important skill learned in school is READING.

It is an absolute travesty that so few students graduating from our schools read well. If one can read with comprehension, one can learn just about anything else he needs to know by reading.

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#340922 - 2010-03-03 15:06:28 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: karl]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13739
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Amen! The schools need to focus on it - and Australian schools across the country are moving back to teaching phonics and grammar, which the evidence shows helps with that. But IMO also parents need to be reading to their kids, having their kids read to them, and reading for pleasure themselves so their kids see reading as the normal thing to do. Learning to read in school is one thing, but actually reading regularly is something else - and vitally important.
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#341330 - 2010-03-04 21:53:59 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: Bravus]
jasd Offline


Registered: 2005-02-15
Posts: 3223
Loc: Oregon
>>Satellite photos of icebergs floating in newly melted oceans on Mars?<<

Geezerville, memory circuits cascade: read lakes rather than oceans...

>>Linkage please!<<

M11-03072, and M10-00798

>>Far as I know there's still a fair bit of uncertainty that there's water on Mars at all, let alone oceans of the stuff...<<

Indeed, there is that uncertainty; however... Personally, I hold to a hypothesis that much, if not the most part, of Mars’ former oceans are now part of ours.

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#341371 - 2010-03-05 00:46:46 Re: Dear America: Do you plan to get it together any time soon? [Re: Bravus]
Jeannieb43 Offline
Princess of Pasadena


Registered: 2001-12-29
Posts: 3592
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Bravus
Amen! The schools need to focus on it - and Australian schools across the country are moving back to teaching phonics and grammar, which the evidence shows helps with that. But IMO also parents need to be reading to their kids, having their kids read to them, and reading for pleasure themselves so their kids see reading as the normal thing to do. Learning to read in school is one thing, but actually reading regularly is something else - and vitally important.



Hear, hear! Reading is becoming a lost art. Too much getting our news from TV these days, without learning phonics or spelling by actually seeing good words in PRINT.

But my response to this very interesting thread is:

(1) astrology and astronomy are two very different words, meaning two very different disciplines. If they're used incorrectly I think it's the fault of the author(s) -- maybe even the state legislators in South Dakota.

(2) and "supercede" is an improper spelling - even if OED does show it as an alternate spelling. Because the word has no relationship to "cede-ing" [giving over] anything, thus cede is not a part of the word. The word is "supersede:" to lead, or to take the place of something which is now out of date.

Sorry to get this thread off topic; but sometimes the "word freak" inside me just takes over.
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...Change is inevitable; growth is optional....

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