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#343331 - 2010-03-11 13:04:51 Earthquakes and 'end times'
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
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#343396 - 2010-03-11 19:40:04 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
dgrimm60 Online   content


Registered: 2001-08-19
Posts: 31387
Loc: dickson tenn
COASPEN

THANK you for this link and the information

dgrimm60

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#343398 - 2010-03-11 19:50:03 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
abelisle Offline
Seeker


Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 1509
Loc: Bronx, NY, USA
I'm missing the tie-in to "end-times." All this article tells us is that the frequency and severity of earthquakes is status quo.

Or maybe you posted this to assuage concerns some might have that we are near or in the end-times now?

Hint: watch out for the nephilim! bwink

Alex
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We are our worst enemy - sad but true.


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#343404 - 2010-03-11 20:04:11 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: abelisle]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
If you google 'earthquakes' you will find many sites concerned with them pointing forward to endtimes. It is also a part of SDA 'ism about such events being tied to 'signs' of the end.
_________________________
"Fear is a darkroom where misconceptions develope"

(anon)

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#343417 - 2010-03-11 20:53:44 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: CoAspen
If you google 'earthquakes' you will find many sites concerned with them pointing forward to endtimes. It is also a part of SDA 'ism about such events being tied to 'signs' of the end.


Don't worry, and especially don't hurry. There is no urgency. Everything is OK. I, Satan, recommend that everyone ignore earthquakes and any other thing that might give some impetus to the Adventist movement.

Relax! All of these "signs of the times" are just the same-old, same-old.
Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Especially disregard this:

Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places....
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 21:11
And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


Edited by karl (2010-03-11 20:55:16)

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#343430 - 2010-03-11 21:40:49 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
RLH Online   content
Mr. Murphy's daddy


Registered: 2009-07-07
Posts: 18995
Loc: North Carolina
That's right because it's all just a myth, right Satan? uh, I mean karl?

What did Jesus know?

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#343446 - 2010-03-11 22:16:02 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
rollingsmile

Some people are so easy!

How about we think beyond a 'knee jerk' reaction!

smilewink
_________________________
"Fear is a darkroom where misconceptions develope"

(anon)

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#343492 - 2010-03-12 07:44:17 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: CoAspen
rollingsmile

Some people are so easy!

How about we think beyond a 'knee jerk' reaction!

smilewink


Is there some Scripture or EGW quote you were wanting to present to steer us away from Matthew 24?

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#343513 - 2010-03-12 08:26:52 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
Tom Wetmore Offline

Latitudinarian


Registered: 2000-06-21
Posts: 4610
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Our tradtional understanding is largely a misunderstanding of what Jesus was actually saying...
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#343522 - 2010-03-12 08:43:40 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
Neil D Offline
Today, I ain't for sale. Check back tomorrow.


Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 17431
Loc: Ca., Id, Wa., Or. or somewhere...
Originally Posted By: karl

Especially disregard this:

Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places....
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 21:11
And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


Are these really 'signs'? We have had "great earthquakes" from time to time thru out history. And how often is an earthquake concidered "great"?

What about famines, and pestilences? How often do they come? Is the rate of these things increased of late or is that the opinion of non-christian writers?

There have always been wars thru out history and rumors of wars. Why is this a 'sign'?

What if these 'signs' are considered "not really signs" but things we talk about anyways? What if Jesus was really saying that you don't know when He is coming but be prepared nonetheless. You don't know when a thief is coming to rob you, but when he comes, it'll be as bright as the lightening is from east to west.


Edited by Neil D (2010-03-12 08:45:06)
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#343545 - 2010-03-12 10:09:01 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Neil D]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Here is another take on earthquakes:


DATES FROM & TO PERIOD NO. EARTHQUAKES (Mag. > 6.99)
--------------------------- ----------- ------------------------------
1863 to 1900 incl 38 yrs 12
1901 to 1938 incl 38 yrs 53
1939 to 1976 incl 38 yrs 71
1977 to 2014 incl * 38 yrs 144 (to Sept. 2009) predict >180 in total.

*predicted from existing trends
---------------

Entire article here: http://www.earth.webecs.co.uk/

This site is from the UK, so it is less likely to be affected by conservative thought and hopefully will be more palatable for CA liberals.

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#343569 - 2010-03-12 11:50:39 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
Quote:
Speaking of the signs that will happen, leading to his return to judge the peoples of earth (at the end of the age), Jesus is quoted as saying ‘in various places there will be famines and earthquakes - these things are the beginning of birth pangs’ (ref: Matthew 24). Now, because birth pains begin small and then increase in intensity and frequency, this passage can be interpreted to mean that earthquakes (and famines - caused primarily through lack of rainfall in certain areas) will increase both in frequency and impact/strength prior to Jesus’ second coming. Although Jesus is clear that no one will know the day or the hour, and his return will indeed happen “when you do not expect”, he does give us broad pointers, one of these being natural events – like earthquakes.
What's with this part? Does that website have a Christian bias or something?
_________________________
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“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus

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#343647 - 2010-03-12 16:22:03 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: SivartM
Quote:
Speaking of the signs that will happen, leading to his return to judge the peoples of earth (at the end of the age), Jesus is quoted as saying ‘in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
What's with this part? Does that website have a Christian bias or something?


Yeah, you're right. Christians probably shouldn't trust any data that includes any mention of Jesus or the BIble. Even if compiled in the UK.

Probably part of a conspiracy to get people to think about the coming judgment and to prepare for the end of the age. We can't have that.

Let's see what Richard Dawkins says and just go with his interpretation. That way there will be no bias.

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#343662 - 2010-03-12 17:15:38 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
Well, it just seemed odd in the middle of a scientific report. Most researchers don't include theological exposition with their weather data. Then again, we have no idea who the researcher is, since that information isn't on the page.

It's also sort of ironic that the author uses the website that CoAspen posted in the OP as a reference.
_________________________
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus

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#343695 - 2010-03-12 20:20:56 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
Lineman Offline
Broke the 400 mark

Registered: 2008-09-14
Posts: 521
Loc: Central Time Zone, USA
I have not been here to ClubAdventist.com for some time and maybe I'm missing something here, but doesn't Matthew 24:6, 7 tell us that wars and rumors of wars and things like earthquakes in different places are something we don't need to worry about?

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places."
_________________________

Please visit Bible Timelines Online and then share it with everyone you know. It's a web-based series of free interactive timelines showing few dates and discussing tough Bible topics.
(These are not your typical timelines.)
http://www.bibletimelines.org/


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#343697 - 2010-03-12 20:24:12 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
Good point, Lineman.
_________________________
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus

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#343700 - 2010-03-12 20:29:48 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: SivartM
Well, it just seemed odd in the middle of a scientific report. Most researchers don't include theological exposition with their weather data. Then again, we have no idea who the researcher is, since that information isn't on the page.

It's also sort of ironic that the author uses the website that CoAspen posted in the OP as a reference.


Yes, there are differing viewpoints using the same site.

But, I see that you and Lineman are going for the "no urgency" interpretation of Matthew 24.

That would be the attitude of the people in Noe's day, don't you think?


Edited by karl (2010-03-12 20:32:39)

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#343702 - 2010-03-12 20:32:58 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
Well, Jesus said that earthquakes would be the beginning of birth pains. He didn't show us a chart depicting earthquake frequencies over the next 2,000 years. :)

But... I'm not a seismologist. Any questions on how nutrition relates to the end times? :D
_________________________
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus

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#343737 - 2010-03-12 21:19:22 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
pkrause Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-24
Posts: 27332
Loc: Deltona,FL,USA
I thought that IIW w/Shawn Boonstra did a pretty good job of last day stuff. Showing earthquake, hurricaine, and end time events.

pk
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phk

"And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
John F Kennedy

"Government is the enemy, until you need a friend".
Bill Cohen

Many people consider the things government does for them to be social progress but they regard the things government does for others as socialism.
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#343743 - 2010-03-12 21:22:33 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
Neil has pointed at a possible direction to take discussion, Tom points out that Christ was misunderstood.

Thinking caps on please, is Neil going in the right direction, and is tom correct? thinking

My curious question, How does the data become liberal or conservative...numbers are numbers. Dig into the site I posted and you will find all the data right there. Maybe 10 isn't really 10, could be 100 or 1000? reyes
_________________________
"Fear is a darkroom where misconceptions develope"

(anon)

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#343747 - 2010-03-12 21:25:25 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
The lesson is that conservative numbers are bigger!

Wait, shouldn't that be... smaller? And liberal numbers bigger? :\

*runs away to a deserted island*
_________________________
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus

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#343767 - 2010-03-12 21:46:50 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
abelisle Offline
Seeker


Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 1509
Loc: Bronx, NY, USA
But the increase in numbers in the last decade or so may not really be that big an increase due to more awareness of geological phenomena and increase dispersion of human populations into previously remote areas.

Alex
_________________________
We are our worst enemy - sad but true.


http://abelisle.blogspot.com

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#343773 - 2010-03-12 21:50:51 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: SivartM]
GreatLakesGramma Offline


Registered: 2001-02-21
Posts: 3630
Loc: Michigan, USA
I agree with Neil. Natural disasters are getting closer together and causing more devastation, but that's simply evidence that the world is wearing out. It doesn't tell us at all WHEN the second coming is going to be. We know that it is near, but HOW near is not necessary for us to know. We should just tend to being about our Father's business.
_________________________
Catherine

God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26.

"To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis

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#343775 - 2010-03-12 21:53:25 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: GreatLakesGramma]
pkrause Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-24
Posts: 27332
Loc: Deltona,FL,USA
Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma
I agree with Neil. Natural disasters are getting closer together and causing more devastation, but that's simply evidence that the world is wearing out. It doesn't tell us at all WHEN the second coming is going to be. We know that it is near, but HOW near is not necessary for us to know. We should just tend to being about our Father's business.


thumbsup
_________________________
phk

"And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
John F Kennedy

"Government is the enemy, until you need a friend".
Bill Cohen

Many people consider the things government does for them to be social progress but they regard the things government does for others as socialism.
Earl Warren

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#343791 - 2010-03-12 22:14:04 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
cardw Offline


Registered: 2002-02-22
Posts: 3575
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: karl
But, I see that you and Lineman are going for the "no urgency" interpretation of Matthew 24.

That would be the attitude of the people in Noe's day, don't you think?


I don't get it. How is worrying about this future going to change it one little bit?
_________________________
Rich
http://tiny.cc/CM2j8

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#343792 - 2010-03-12 22:19:11 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: cardw]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: cardw
Originally Posted By: karl
But, I see that you and Lineman are going for the "no urgency" interpretation of Matthew 24.

That would be the attitude of the people in Noe's day, don't you think?


I don't get it. How is worrying about this future going to change it one little bit?


It's not about change. It's about exerting the fear of God on them so that they will come to God due to that fear. Hell fire and brimstone.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
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#343795 - 2010-03-12 22:23:32 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: cardw]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: cardw
Originally Posted By: karl
But, I see that you and Lineman are going for the "no urgency" interpretation of Matthew 24.

That would be the attitude of the people in Noe's day, don't you think?


I don't get it. How is worrying about this future going to change it one little bit?


The idea is not to get into a complacent state of mind about the future. Worrying about it won't change IT, but preparing for IT will change US.

I have quoted the warning Scripture and the complacent attitude the Scripture warns us against (Behold all things continue....) It is up to each of us to decide how we will take the warning and how we will avoid the complacency. I'm hearing a lot of "Who cares?" here. I hope I''m wrong.

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#343802 - 2010-03-12 22:36:09 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
Woody Online   th_yap2
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Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Yes Karl. I think you are wrong ... as you hoped. The complacency belongs in the camp who think the end time events are significant. We have zero time. If we should die ... that would close the chapter. But those that dwell on the end time events ... will lead us to believe that we have till the end of the world. That is what leads to complacency.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#343806 - 2010-03-12 22:40:10 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Woody]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: Woody
Yes Karl. I think you are wrong ... as you hoped. The complacency belongs in the camp who think the end time events are significant. We have zero time. If we should die ... that would close the chapter. But those that dwell on the end time events ... will lead us to believe that we have till the end of the world. That is what leads to complacency.


I agree that thinking there will be a more convenient time to seek the Lord can be fatal. No matter how badly I have stated the urgency of the situation, my concern is that we put off no longer opening the door fully to Christ.

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#343807 - 2010-03-12 22:42:14 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: karl
Originally Posted By: Woody
Yes Karl. I think you are wrong ... as you hoped. The complacency belongs in the camp who think the end time events are significant. We have zero time. If we should die ... that would close the chapter. But those that dwell on the end time events ... will lead us to believe that we have till the end of the world. That is what leads to complacency.


I agree that thinking there will be a more convenient time to seek the Lord can be fatal. No matter how badly I have stated the urgency of the situation, my concern is that we put off no longer opening the door fully to Christ.


thumbsup
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#343840 - 2010-03-12 23:47:32 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 2008-09-26
Posts: 4360
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: karl
Originally Posted By: CoAspen
If you google 'earthquakes' you will find many sites concerned with them pointing forward to endtimes. It is also a part of SDA 'ism about such events being tied to 'signs' of the end.


Don't worry, and especially don't hurry. There is no urgency. Everything is OK. I, Satan, recommend that everyone ignore earthquakes and any other thing that might give some impetus to the Adventist movement.

Relax! All of these "signs of the times" are just the same-old, same-old.
Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Especially disregard this:

Matthew 24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places....
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 21:11
And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


Well said.

You might add "sleep! sleep! all is sleeeepy!"

for the objective thinking reader - the OP provides a link to a link that is worth reviewing.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/graphs.php

There you find that in ALL of the 1980's not only did we have fewer quakes we had AT MOST 26,550 deaths in a year - and that happened only once in that ten year span. In almost ALL other years in the 1980's the deaths were well below 10,000 for an entire year. No wonder the "Lisbon earthquake" with 90,000 deaths still made the charts for prophecy when discussing Matt 24!

In the 1990's you see a JUMP - such that in ONE year you have a whopping total of 55,000 deaths (1980)and in 1999 another whopper - 22,000 deaths! And still that Lisbon Earthquake - 90,000 deaths estimated, was something to consider when discussing Matt 24.



Then in the 2000 - 2010 span you see a WHOPPING jump of two years where each one has about 250,000 deaths! We have a 5.5 year window with 500,000 killed in earthquakes in just TWO of the 5 years! That 5 year window saw two years over over 220,000 each which means each of those years was record breaker for the past 400 years - and two 220k+ years in a short 5 year window is a record breaker sequence for all of recorded history.

Oops! I forgot a tiny detail - 2010 is not OVER! (So yeah - THIS is the year to make light of earthquakes -- )

In this not-yet 8 year span from 2003 to 2010 we have had two years with over 250,000 (but this Chart only shows above 220,000 each), one year with 88,000, one with 82,000 and one with 33,000. In other words ALL but 3 years in that 8 year window from 2003 to 2010 were higher than the HIGHEST ever recorded in the entire 10 year span of the 1980's.

So I gotta believe that if there was ever a time to be asleep at the wheel - our visionaries will make sure it is "this one".

In 1John 2 - John says "by this we know it is the LAST HOUR".

Imagine God telling John 2 write that almost 2000 years ago!

Imagine if John were living at a time when earthquakes had wiped out 700,000 people in the space of just 7 years!

Now let's Look at the list of major earthquakes going back to the 9th century A.D.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/historical.php

Count the number of times you find an earthquake killing 220,000 people or more.

1138 AD - 230,000 in Syria
1556 Ad - 830,000 in China (Magnitude 8 quake)
2004 AD - 227,000 in Sumatra(mag 9.1)
2010 AD - 220,000 in Haiti (Magnitude 7.0)

So far going from 2003 through the end of 2012 - we are looking at the deadliest 10 year window in all of recorded history.

And then we just had the M8.8 in Chile.

I suppose this is just "more things to ignore" for the group that does not like the idea of signs or the end of time.

in Christ,

Bob






Edited by BobRyan (2010-03-13 00:28:52)
_________________________
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#343844 - 2010-03-13 00:03:29 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
yes. the population has grown quite a bit ...
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#343847 - 2010-03-13 00:09:15 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Lineman Offline
Broke the 400 mark

Registered: 2008-09-14
Posts: 521
Loc: Central Time Zone, USA
I'm disappointed to see Karl and Bob misunderstanding. I, for one, understand that we are very much in the "end of time" and that VERY soon Jesus will come. (I think my website shows that very well.) There are many signs that Jesus gave us in Matthew 24 that prove that.

I just happen to be questioning whether or not earthquakes are one of the signs we are to be watching. So far I only see people here making fun of those who have questions and am not seeing real answers.

Is Jesus telling us that earthquakes are one of the signs of His coming, or not? If not, why is this discussion even going on?

I currently have a timeline dedicated to this very topic of earthquakes, but now I am not sure it should even be there. Anyone have real Bible (or even EGW) backup of what you are saying? I'd like to hear it please.
_________________________

Please visit Bible Timelines Online and then share it with everyone you know. It's a web-based series of free interactive timelines showing few dates and discussing tough Bible topics.
(These are not your typical timelines.)
http://www.bibletimelines.org/


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#343849 - 2010-03-13 00:21:34 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
RLH Online   content
Mr. Murphy's daddy


Registered: 2009-07-07
Posts: 18995
Loc: North Carolina
The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them all, God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger.--Prophets and Kings, p. 277. {ChS 52.3}

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#343850 - 2010-03-13 00:22:52 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Tom Wetmore Offline

Latitudinarian


Registered: 2000-06-21
Posts: 4610
Loc: Silver Spring, MD, USA
No Bob, what is being ignored is what Jesus actually said.

Lineman nailed it:

Originally Posted By: Lineman
I have not been here to ClubAdventist.com for some time and maybe I'm missing something here, but doesn't Matthew 24:6, 7 tell us that wars and rumors of wars and things like earthquakes in different places are something we don't need to worry about?

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places."


What part of "see to it that you are not alarmed" or "the end is still to come" is so hard to understand?!?!

Jesus described all theses things as being "the beginning of birth pains." "Beginning" is the opposite of "end". Birth happens early in life, not at the end.

What does Jesus say actually happens just before "and then the end will come"? When that happens time will be completed. The end will then happen. Jesus will return after that sign of the end is fulfilled.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Will we know when the gospel is testified to all nations, the whole world? No. Only God knows when the gospel has been presented to every heart. That is why Jesus said, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
_________________________
"Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good."
"Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal."
"I love God only as much as the person I love the least."
*Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth.
(And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)

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#343856 - 2010-03-13 00:49:24 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Neil D Offline
Today, I ain't for sale. Check back tomorrow.


Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 17431
Loc: Ca., Id, Wa., Or. or somewhere...
Originally Posted By: BobRyan

So far going from 2003 through the end of 2012 - we are looking at the deadliest 10 year window in all of recorded history.

And then we just had the M8.8 in Chile.

I suppose this is just "more things to ignore" for the group that does not like the idea of signs or the end of time.

in Christ,

Bob


And I am going to say "So?"

We look for BIG things to happen to indicate that Jesus is coming...Wars, and rumor of wars....Pestilence....famines....earthquakes....
...Death and destruction....As Jesus said, these are the BEGINNINGs of birth pangs. These are sensational things to talk about.....For the religious, it is the very things that may bring about the 2nd coming...isn't it?

I don't think so.....It isn't the sensational that God is interested in...God is NOT a god of sensation......"Let us reason together, says the Lord. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as wool"....God is a God of faith, of love, of hope....isn't that what you would rather be talking about?
_________________________
Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.

George Bernard Shaw

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#343869 - 2010-03-13 02:23:01 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Neil D]
addvantage Offline
I have already made 100 posts

Registered: 2000-03-19
Posts: 138
Loc: earth
I was just looking at a post two days ago from the Intertel forum where this question was tossed in the ring for discussion.

They posted a link to the USGS site that listed all the earthquakes that were above 6.0.

Incidence of earthquakes that are above 6.0 on the Richter scale by year

3 in 1967; 7 in 1968; 4 in 1969; 5 in 1970; 4 in 1971; 6 in 1972; 1 in 1973; 5 in 1974; 6 in 1975; 6 in 1976; 2 in 1977; 2 in 1978; 2 in 1979;
6 in 1980; 3 in 1981; 1 in 1982; 4 in 1983; 1 in 1984; 4 in 1985; 3 in 1986; 4 in 1987; 4 in 1988; 2 in 1989; 2 in 1990; 3 in 1991; 6 in 1992;
3 in 1993 08; 3 in 1994; 4 in 1995; 1 in 1996; 6 in 1997; 8 in 1998; 13 in 1999; 7 in 2000; 7 in 2001; 23 in 2002; 39 in 2003; 35 in 2004; 35 in 2005; 25 in 2006; 47 in 2007; 35 in 2008; 52 in 2009


In the last seven years we have had 291 over 6.0 (2002 - 2009)
In the seven years before that we had 46 over 6.0 (1995 - 2002)
In the seven years before that we had 23 over 6.0 (1988 - 1995)
In the seven years before that we had 20 over 6.0 (1981 - 1988)

The original post is the answer to the question if the question were answered in 2001. Yesterday's answer is not suitable for today's question.

If you graph the above figures on a year by year chart, you will most certainly see the hockey stick that was missing in the global warming scheme.
_________________________
addvantage

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#343881 - 2010-03-13 04:28:23 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: addvantage]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Read the whole chapter. Matthew 24 is saying, in a nutshell, "Be watchful. Be wary. If you aren't, the end will sneak up on you."

Or, try Luke 21:34-36 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

This is important stuff. Spelled out in red letters.

Go ahead and pooh-pooh the earthquakes. They are not your redemption. Forget the signs of the times. They are not your redemption.

Just stay close to your Redemption. I don't know how you can do this without being watchful and wary, since that is what He told us to be, but.... maybe it can be done.

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#343886 - 2010-03-13 06:14:32 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
Lineman Offline
Broke the 400 mark

Registered: 2008-09-14
Posts: 521
Loc: Central Time Zone, USA
Ok, I just went and reread Matthew 24 from the NIV and still come away with the same understanding. The Message certainly says it in a different way, but it still says the same thing to me.

from Matthew 24 (The Message):
Quote:
4-8Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, 'I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people. When reports come in of wars and rumored wars, keep your head and don't panic. This is routine history; this is no sign of the end. Nation will fight nation and ruler fight ruler, over and over. Famines and earthquakes will occur in various places. This is nothing compared to what is coming.

9-10"They are going to throw you to the wolves and kill you, everyone hating you because you carry my name. And then, going from bad to worse, it will be dog-eat-dog, everyone at each other's throat, everyone hating each other.

11-12"In the confusion, lying preachers will come forward and deceive a lot of people. For many others, the overwhelming spread of evil will do them in—nothing left of their love but a mound of ashes.

13-14"Staying with it—that's what God requires. Stay with it to the end. You won't be sorry, and you'll be saved. All during this time, the good news—the Message of the kingdom—will be preached all over the world, a witness staked out in every country. And then the end will come.


And the quote from EGW above (Thanks very much by the way!) reminds us that earthquakes are being used by God to wake us up, to keep us focused on what is important, yes, but it certainly does NOT tell us that the frequency of earthquakes is a sign of Christ's emanate return.

Seems to me that what Jesus said in verse 4 applies to what we are hearing today. According to The Message Jesus said,
Quote:
Watch out for doomsday deceivers.


Aren't we "doomsday deceivers" when we say that earthquakes are one of the signs of His coming when He PLAINLY says that they are just "routine history"?

I think I'm going to totally remove the Earthquake Timeline from my website right now. I certainly want people to KNOW that Jesus is coming very soon, but I no longer want to be a doomsday deceiver, trying to use something that looks like a sign, but in reality is NOT a sign of His coming.

Do we want people to see that Jesus is coming soon? Absolutely, but using "lies" to deceive people of this fact is counter productive it seems, nor is it Christ-like.
_________________________

Please visit Bible Timelines Online and then share it with everyone you know. It's a web-based series of free interactive timelines showing few dates and discussing tough Bible topics.
(These are not your typical timelines.)
http://www.bibletimelines.org/


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#343890 - 2010-03-13 06:22:11 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
Lineman Offline
Broke the 400 mark

Registered: 2008-09-14
Posts: 521
Loc: Central Time Zone, USA
Originally Posted By: karl
Read the whole chapter. Matthew 24 is saying, in a nutshell, "Be watchful. Be wary. If you aren't, the end will sneak up on you."

Or, try Luke 21:34-36 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

This is important stuff. Spelled out in red letters.
Karl, I totally agree that this is "important stuff", but that is NOT my point.

My point is, aren't we adding to "the anxieties of life" by telling people that Jesus is using earthquakes as a sign when He clearly does NOT say such a thing?
_________________________

Please visit Bible Timelines Online and then share it with everyone you know. It's a web-based series of free interactive timelines showing few dates and discussing tough Bible topics.
(These are not your typical timelines.)
http://www.bibletimelines.org/


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#343895 - 2010-03-13 06:52:50 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
Lineman Offline
Broke the 400 mark

Registered: 2008-09-14
Posts: 521
Loc: Central Time Zone, USA
OK, rather than totally remove my earthquake timeline I just updated what was talked about there because some people still see this as being a sign of Christ's soon coming even if it is not.

Maybe this way I can help both "sides" understand that our salvation is not in knowing that Jesus is coming soon, but in personally knowing the One who is coming. It's our relationship with Jesus that matters most. Just knowing that He is coming soon does not save any of us.

excited I want to be a friend of Jesus.

Major Earthquake Timeline

Thanks for your help everyone. I don't feel as if I am lying any more.




Edited by Lineman (2010-03-13 07:00:32)
_________________________

Please visit Bible Timelines Online and then share it with everyone you know. It's a web-based series of free interactive timelines showing few dates and discussing tough Bible topics.
(These are not your typical timelines.)
http://www.bibletimelines.org/


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#343902 - 2010-03-13 08:00:31 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: RLH]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 2008-09-26
Posts: 4360
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Lineman
I'm disappointed to see Karl and Bob misunderstanding. I, for one, understand that we are very much in the "end of time" and that VERY soon Jesus will come. (I think my website shows that very well.) There are many signs that Jesus gave us in Matthew 24 that prove that.

I just happen to be questioning whether or not earthquakes are one of the signs we are to be watching. So far I only see people here making fun of those who have questions and am not seeing real answers.

Is Jesus telling us that earthquakes are one of the signs of His coming, or not? If not, why is this discussion even going on?



Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook
The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them all, God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger.--Prophets and Kings, p. 277. {ChS 52.3}


Another sign - mentioned by John but not listed in Matt 24 is the sign of the antichrists. Those who oppose Christ - not necessarily those claiming to BE Christ.

Quote:


Maranatha 220
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter02774.htm

Chap. 212 - High Time to Awake!

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Rom. 13:11, 12.


The great controversy is nearing its end. Every report of calamity by sea or land is a testimony to the fact that the end of all things is at hand. Wars and rumors of wars declare it. Is there a Christian whose pulse does not beat with quickened action as he anticipates the great events opening before us? The Lord is coming. We hear the footsteps of an approaching God. {Mar 220.1}



Living in the deadliest 10 year window (in terms of earthquakes alone) certainly qualifies as an "every calamity".

in Christ,

Bob
_________________________
John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free

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#343914 - 2010-03-13 08:55:05 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Neil D Offline
Today, I ain't for sale. Check back tomorrow.


Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 17431
Loc: Ca., Id, Wa., Or. or somewhere...
......and where is the Good News that is to be preached to all the world?

To a thinking public, what is good about the end of all things that we know?

....Is the Good News (aka Gospel) REALLY good news or is it something that eases your fears?

...I think we all agree that disasters (earthquakes) are a means to really shake a person back to God or at least alert her/him of his/her condition between her/him and God. The question is, in the chronology of life, is not so much as "Where is God?" but if God ever was present in the life?


Edited by Neil D (2010-03-13 08:56:07)
_________________________
Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.

George Bernard Shaw

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#343927 - 2010-03-13 11:40:08 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
Aren't we "doomsday deceivers" when we say that earthquakes are one of the signs of His coming when He PLAINLY says that they are just "routine history"?

I think I'm going to totally remove the Earthquake Timeline from my website right now. I certainly want people to KNOW that Jesus is coming very soon, but I no longer want to be a doomsday deceiver, trying to use something that looks like a sign, but in reality is NOT a sign of His coming.

Do we want people to see that Jesus is coming soon? Absolutely, but using "lies" to deceive people of this fact is counter productive it seems, nor is it Christ-like.


Lineman. You are to be commended. Not many are able to see the errors they make and then take steps to make things right.

Well done. Yes, I agree that they are lies and counter productive and need to be removed .

Good Job.

tthumbsup
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#343956 - 2010-03-13 13:41:40 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Neil D]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 2008-09-26
Posts: 4360
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Lineman


I'm disappointed to see Karl and Bob misunderstanding. I, for one, understand that we are very much in the "end of time" and that VERY soon Jesus will come. (I think my website shows that very well.) There are many signs that Jesus gave us in Matthew 24 that prove that.

I just happen to be questioning whether or not earthquakes are one of the signs we are to be watching. So far I only see people here making fun of those who have questions and am not seeing real answers.

Is Jesus telling us that earthquakes are one of the signs of His coming, or not? If not, why is this discussion even going on?


Hence the answer regarding "every calamity" as a sign in these last days.


Originally Posted By: Neil D
......and where is the Good News that is to be preached to all the world?



That is "yet another question" - both questions are valid. Both have to be answered.


Quote:

To a thinking public, what is good about the end of all things that we know?

....Is the Good News (aka Gospel) REALLY good news or is it something that eases your fears?

...I think we all agree that disasters (earthquakes) are a means to really shake a person back to God or at least alert her/him of his/her condition between her/him and God. The question is, in the chronology of life, is not so much as "Where is God?" but if God ever was present in the life?


Indeed it is "good news" that God does not simply "show up" and then everyone place their cards on the table. The reason he sends signs and warnings is that "God is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance".

in Christ,

Bob
_________________________
John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free

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#343968 - 2010-03-13 13:50:21 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 2008-09-26
Posts: 4360
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Lineman
OK, rather than totally remove my earthquake timeline I just updated what was talked about there because some people still see this as being a sign of Christ's soon coming even if it is not.

Maybe this way I can help both "sides" understand that our salvation is not in knowing that Jesus is coming soon, but in personally knowing the One who is coming. It's our relationship with Jesus that matters most. Just knowing that He is coming soon does not save any of us.

excited I want to be a friend of Jesus.

Major Earthquake Timeline

Thanks for your help everyone. I don't feel as if I am lying any more.




Peter said that he "considered it right to stir you up by way of reminder" in 2 Pet 1. Then in 2Pet 3 he gives the 2nd coming presentation once again.

John says the signs of the times tell us that we are "in the last hour".

The Bible writers set an urgent expectation for the soon return of Christ.

So also do the messages God gave Ellen White.

in Christ,

Bob
_________________________
John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free

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#343985 - 2010-03-13 14:45:06 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
pkrause Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-24
Posts: 27332
Loc: Deltona,FL,USA
I do agree that there are many crying wolf to often and that desensetise's (sp) us or many to finally say that's enough, and than they will be caught sleeping when the end finally comes. Its almost like people crying up a storm over global warming, and now they are down playing it. Now don't get me wrong about global warming or climate change or whatever we call it. The point I think is not to cry wolf to many times before people start thinking any saying, this is all poppy [censored], I'm not gonna listen anymore.
Or like people bashing others over the head with EGW, now many question her as a Prophet because of that. (In my opinion)

pk


Edited by pkrause (2010-03-13 16:36:15)
_________________________
phk

"And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
John F Kennedy

"Government is the enemy, until you need a friend".
Bill Cohen

Many people consider the things government does for them to be social progress but they regard the things government does for others as socialism.
Earl Warren

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#343991 - 2010-03-13 14:55:02 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: pkrause]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
The point I think is not to dry wolf


This time ... I agree with pk. I suspect it would be dangerous to try to dry wolves.
_________________________
May we be one so that the world may be won.
Christian from the cradle to the grave
I believe in Hematology.

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#344039 - 2010-03-13 16:37:18 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Woody]
pkrause Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-24
Posts: 27332
Loc: Deltona,FL,USA
Originally Posted By: Woody
Quote:
The point I think is not to dry wolf


This time ... I agree with pk. I suspect it would be dangerous to try to dry wolves.


Yes definitely don't dry a wolf on your own. :):):):):)
Thanks Woody I fixed it.

pk
_________________________
phk

"And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
John F Kennedy

"Government is the enemy, until you need a friend".
Bill Cohen

Many people consider the things government does for them to be social progress but they regard the things government does for others as socialism.
Earl Warren

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#344050 - 2010-03-13 17:20:13 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Neil D Offline
Today, I ain't for sale. Check back tomorrow.


Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 17431
Loc: Ca., Id, Wa., Or. or somewhere...
Originally Posted By: BobRyan
Originally Posted By: Neil D
......and where is the Good News that is to be preached to all the world?



That is "yet another question" - both questions are valid. Both have to be answered.


But in the context of last day events, the sensational cataclysmic events shout out the still small voice of the Good News. The average Joe and Josephine can't hear due to other sensational news from the last day events scenerio.


Quote:

To a thinking public, what is good about the end of all things that we know?

....Is the Good News (aka Gospel) REALLY good news or is it something that eases your fears?

...I think we all agree that disasters (earthquakes) are a means to really shake a person back to God or at least alert her/him of his/her condition between her/him and God. The question is, in the chronology of life, is not so much as "Where is God?" but if God ever was present in the life?


Indeed it is "good news" that God does not simply "show up" and then everyone place their cards on the table. The reason he sends signs and warnings is that "God is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance". [/quote]

Ah, as opposed to the cataclysmic scenarios where all are trying to survive after loosing everything. "sorry, God...Didn't hear the maniac looking man shouting out that these are the last days of earth history. I was too busy trying to avoid falling bricks, being swallowed up tears in the ground, my kids being hungry, my wife grumbling that there is no cuddling and when I do, I fall asleep...."

At least, with the "all cards on deck" scenerio, the Holy Spirit woos each person.....
_________________________
Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.

George Bernard Shaw

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#344119 - 2010-03-13 20:06:55 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
addvantage Offline
I have already made 100 posts

Registered: 2000-03-19
Posts: 138
Loc: earth
J.N.Andrews said:
“All ground for controversy ceases to exist, when the just claims of all the contending parties are fairly allowed. Truth is not partial and sectarian. It embraces within itself all the facts that have any bearing on the subject of inquiry in every case. We have the truth concerning any doctrine of the Bible when we are able to present a divine harmony of all the Scripture testimony pertaining to that subject.” - J.N. Andrews

The last days of this earth are spoken of in Revelation pertaining to earthquakes.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and
the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 8
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and
lightnings, and an earthquake.

Revelation 11
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part

of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand:
and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in
his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and
voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelation 16
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was
a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so
mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Isaiah 24
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the
earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
_________________________
addvantage

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#344131 - 2010-03-13 20:56:59 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: addvantage]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
Ah, all this means what????
_________________________
"Fear is a darkroom where misconceptions develope"

(anon)

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#344165 - 2010-03-13 21:57:40 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Neil D]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 2008-09-26
Posts: 4360
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

The Spirit of God is being withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them all, God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger.--Prophets and Kings, p. 277. {ChS 52.3}


Another sign - mentioned by John but not listed in Matt 24 is the sign of the antichrists. Those who oppose Christ - not necessarily those claiming to BE Christ.

Quote:

Maranatha 220
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter02774.htm

Chap. 212 - High Time to Awake!

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Rom. 13:11, 12.

The great controversy is nearing its end. Every report of calamity by sea or land is a testimony to the fact that the end of all things is at hand. Wars and rumors of wars declare it. Is there a Christian whose pulse does not beat with quickened action as he anticipates the great events opening before us? The Lord is coming. We hear the footsteps of an approaching God. {Mar 220.1}



Living in the deadliest 10 year window (in terms of earthquakes alone) certainly qualifies as an "every calamity".


Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Peter said that he "considered it right to stir you up by way of reminder" in 2 Pet 1. Then in 2Pet 3 he gives the 2nd coming presentation once again.

John says the signs of the times tell us that we are "in the last hour
The Bible writers set an urgent expectation for the soon return of Christ.
So also do the messages God gave Ellen White.



Originally Posted By: Neil D

But in the context of last day events, the sensational cataclysmic events shout out the still small voice of the Good News. The average Joe and Josephine can't hear due to other sensational news from the last day events scenerio.


It would appear that "every calamity" is the same "every calamity" today as it has been in the past and the average Joe has the option to ignore the end times warning (that Ellen White stated should be given) today just as they have always had that option.

What are we missing?

in Christ,

Bob



Edited by BobRyan (2010-03-13 21:59:06)
_________________________
John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free

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#344171 - 2010-03-13 22:32:17 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13740
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
As always, a text without context is a pretext.

And is it possible that there are not more earthquakes, but more earthquakes detected and reported with sensitive instruments and global communications?
_________________________
Truth is important

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#344172 - 2010-03-13 22:33:37 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Bravus]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13740
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
And sure, current events can awaken people to their danger: but pointing to patterns in current events that are not real patterns can also bring the gospel into disrepute...
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#344188 - 2010-03-13 23:43:29 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Bravus]
addvantage Offline
I have already made 100 posts

Registered: 2000-03-19
Posts: 138
Loc: earth
The same argument about instrument sensitivity has been made over 30 years ago. So the answer is no, the instruments in the last ten years have not detected more earthquakes over 6.0 than the past several decades. But it is within this last 30 year period that there has been a threefold increase in major earthquakes.
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#344189 - 2010-03-13 23:44:25 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Bravus]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista


Registered: 2002-02-02
Posts: 26194
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Perception is reality. If the public perceives there are more natural disasters than there has been in the past, than for those people there are. We are told that these natural disasters coming quickly one after another are what will bring about the national Sunday laws. I am not convinced we are there now - I tend to doubt it. But my eyebrows are raised and I am watching things closely.
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#344307 - 2010-03-14 12:24:40 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
Okay, we seem to be wandering around again. Are the signs that Christ talked about for 'prediction' of the end time or for 'verification' of the truthfulness of His words?
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#344309 - 2010-03-14 12:36:52 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
Woody Online   th_yap2
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Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
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"The signs which He Himself gave of His coming have been fulfilled, and by the teaching of God's word we may know that the Lord is at the door." {COL 226.3}
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#344312 - 2010-03-14 12:47:44 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: CoAspen]
Lineman Offline
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Registered: 2008-09-14
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I hate to take us back, but I feel we really need to look at what has been said above closely.

I have an issue with what Bob has shared with us. Bob, you are saying that these EGW comments are telling us that earthquakes ARE signs of Christ's soon coming, but I do NOT read that in them at all. They are to awaken us to our danger, yes, but is this danger only that Jesus is coming or that we should be ready to die at any moment?

And the earthquake spoken of in Revelation that Addvantage shared with us takes place after probation closes and the plagues start, right? So it can not be one of the signs of His soon coming really, at least this earthquake is not there to "scare" anyone into seeing their danger.

Good question Coaspen, all prophecy proves the accuracy of the Bible. But those that have NOT happened cannot prove anything yet. Only when we see these things happening can we know that such and such is also going to happen, right?
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#344324 - 2010-03-14 13:53:16 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
It seems pretty clear you are currently opposed to using earthquakes as a warning sign of Christ's soon coming. If you're not opposed to warnings in general, maybe you could go with just a generic warning. The close of probation comes for each person at the end of his life, and convulsions of nature can end people's lives prematurely.

"How frequently we hear of earthquakes and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces of nature, wholly beyond the control of man, but in them all God's purpose may be read. They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger."--PK 277

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#344396 - 2010-03-14 16:47:28 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
They are among the agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women to a sense of their danger."--PK 277


Man has been in danger since the flood or whenever Adam and Eve fell. So is the 'sense' of danger about every day or 'end time'?

When do we stop the focus on 'events' and turn it towards our everyday lives?

What are you more likely to die of, falling out of the sky, crossing the street, a tornado, flood, car crash, trains, earthquakes, ice age, new global heat, murder by someone, etc, etc?

Could earthquakes have been used as a metaphor because of time and place, familiarity with event?

What was Christ trying to tell people???????????????????


Edited by CoAspen (2010-03-14 18:06:19)
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#344411 - 2010-03-14 18:02:33 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Lineman]
BobRyan Offline


Registered: 2008-09-26
Posts: 4360
Loc: Georgia
Originally Posted By: Lineman
I hate to take us back, but I feel we really need to look at what has been said above closely.

I have an issue with what Bob has shared with us. Bob, you are saying that these EGW comments are telling us that earthquakes ARE signs of Christ's soon coming, but I do NOT read that in them at all.


She argues that "every calamity" by land and by sea (and it is hard to argue that earthquakes killing 250,000 people is not a calamity) are a sign - calling us to wake up to the fact that the end is near and that we are in danger of being unpreprared.


Quote:

They are to awaken us to our danger, yes, but is this danger only that Jesus is coming or that we should be ready to die at any moment?


This point actually came up in our Sabbath School yesterday - the answer is that while it is true that "I could die any moment" is a thought that gives the same sense of urgency -- we would be a total wreck if we went around proclaiming as our evangelistic message "I could die before this evening, I could die tomorrow, I could die by the end of the week" ... etc.

It would destroy our witness and it would over time ruin our Christian walk. It is actually much healthier to get the same "awakened to the danger" result by focusing on the nearness of the 2nd coming and the signs of the time -- rather than constantly stir up yourself over the sobering thought "I could die by this evening".

God had the right solution.


Notice that instead of saying "Every calamity reminds us to wake up to the fact that we can die at any moment so we should be ready... but we should not view every calamity as a sign that the end is near" we actually have this -

Quote:

Maranatha 220
http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/g...hapter02774.htm

Chap. 212 - High Time to Awake!

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. Rom. 13:11, 12.

The great controversy is nearing its end. Every report of calamity by sea or land is a testimony to the fact that the end of all things is at hand. Wars and rumors of wars declare it. Is there a Christian whose pulse does not beat with quickened action as he anticipates the great events opening before us? The Lord is coming. We hear the footsteps of an approaching God. {Mar 220.1}



"Nearing it's end" -- "end of all things is at hand". AND these "every calamity" signs are placed on par with "Wars and rumors of wars" that are said to declaring the same "end of all things is at hand" message.

No wonder John says "this is the last hour".

"The Lord is coming. We hear His footsteps" is a very different (and much more positive) message than "I could die tonight, tomorrow, by the end of the week". In fact after the close of probation one of the key promises is that "you CANNOT DIE" if you are a saved saint alive at that time.

The "I could die today" solution is not the focus that you see in the NT as much as the message that "at a time such as you think not the Master will come - so be ready".

in Christ,

Bob


Edited by BobRyan (2010-03-14 18:09:02)
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#344416 - 2010-03-14 18:16:54 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
CoAspen Online   walklikeegyptian


Registered: 2002-07-01
Posts: 4690
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
It would destroy our witness and it would over time ruin our Christian walk. It is actually much healthier to get the same "awakened to the danger" result by focusing on the nearness of the 2nd coming and the signs of the time -- rather than constantly stir up yourself over the sobering thought "I could die by this evening".


What is the difference? Which is more 'near', everyday events or some phenomenon that has been happening for thousands of years?

Destroy 'witness' by tying catastrophes to second coming of Christ, when it is unknown by Christ himself, or simply teaching people to live everyday as if it were their last? Which is more realistic?
Or is it just an excuse to try and find that 'endtime' point?

Which is the Saviour, events or Christ?
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#344417 - 2010-03-14 18:16:57 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: BobRyan]
Bravus Online   content
Husband and Father


Registered: 2004-09-05
Posts: 13740
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
"Wolf! Wooolff!!"
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#344514 - 2010-03-14 23:36:06 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Bravus]
Woody Online   th_yap2
Swiss n Swedish American


Registered: 2006-12-09
Posts: 27084
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Originally Posted By: Bravus
"Wolf! Wooolff!!"


Amen
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#344701 - 2010-03-15 15:01:19 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: Woody]
karl Offline


Registered: 2009-04-18
Posts: 2752
Originally Posted By: Woody
Originally Posted By: Bravus
"Wolf! Wooolff!!"


Amen


Yeah, there's nothing going on. Let's just get on with our lives.

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#344705 - 2010-03-15 15:15:34 Re: Earthquakes and 'end times' [Re: karl]
SivartM Online   willy_nilly
*nods emphatically*


Registered: 2008-12-20
Posts: 3201
Loc: Here, there, everywhere
There was an earthquake!!!! It's the end of the world!!! Run for your lives!!!!!!!

:D
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