back to my original comment..

Yes. I have to agree with GLG. For some it is so difficult to see their pet ideas or views disagreed with. They get defensive and take it personal. I suppose it's natural. But SivartM is one of our most well behaved members here. I think it has something to do with his age. But don't quote me on that. All I know is he has learned much and I glean much from him in both his manner and content.

Thanks, Woody, but I did go too far in this conversation. Which is why I am not going to say anything to Dr. Rich... even though I really really want to... *bites tongue*

I think we could look at the beginning of the SDA church as coming from a bunch of people who fell for the idea that Jesus would come in 1844.

What is the attraction of having a prophet that has special knowledge?

The Bible seems to be full of people who had inside knowledge.

I think all of this comes from the desire to find meaning in life and avoid despair, angst, absurdity, alienation, and boredom.

It's incredible how adaptable the human imagination is. Look at our fascination with stories and movies. All of these reward those who can suspend disbelief.

So belief can provide even more opportunities to find meaning.

I agree.

SivartM is a 'keeper'

Yes. Just hope he doesn't learn any bad habits from the rest of us. :)

Ya sivartM, I'm biting mine too. :)

Here's just a few quotes from non-Christians:

"I'm not so much celebrating Christmas as acknowledging Yule – the old Germanic and Norse mid-winter festival supplanted over a millennium ago by early Christian missionaries and to which we owe most of the seasonal fun, including the Christmas tree, the lights, holly, mistletoe and the ham."
- Ancient Yule festivals lie behind much of our British Christmas, by Ian Vince, 15 Dec 2008, Telegraph.co.uk
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/377607...-Christmas.html)

"Yule, the winter solstice, is a festival of peace and a celebration of waxing solar light. I honor the new sun child by burning a[n] oaken yule log in a sacred fire. I honor the great goddess in her many great mother aspects, and the father god as Santa in his old sky god, father time, and holly king forms. I decorate my home with lights and with holly, ivy, mistletoe, evergreens and other herbs sacred to this season. I ring in the new solar year with bells."
- Wiccan high priestess Selena Fox, (http://www.circlesanctuary.org)


"Yule has the longest night and the shortest day of the year. It is the time when the Goddess gives birth to a son, the God. Witches and Wiccans celebrate the Festival of the God’s Rebirth. It is a time to honor the Holly King. Accomplishes of the past, love, togetherness, and love are also celebrated. These things are celebrated by burning the Yule Log in a bonfire. Other Names: Winter Solstice, Christmas, Alban Arthan, Finn’s Day, Festival of Sol, Yuletide, Great Day of the Cauldron, and the Festival of Growth."
- A Beginner's Guide To The 8 Wiccan Holidays, by Silver Wolf, Oct. 28th, 2007 (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usor&c=holidays&id=11776)

"However, the enduring imagery of the festival is forever pagan, from the top of the Christmas tree to the presents at its base, the Druids' mistletoe and the Romans' holly over the fireplace, with a Yule log burning in the grate."
- Seasons of the Witch: The Winter Sabbat , by L.P. Ruickbie, p. 7

“But of course, now it’s time for the big one – Yule. You know, celebrating with Yule logs, and holly, and mistletoe (not to mention the stolen kisses!) . Singing those old Yule time carols. Putting up the evergreen Yule tree and decorating it. Drinking a lot of mead - or these days, spiced cider or spiked eggnog. Giving presents. Lots of presents. The Sun [pause] of God being born with the New Year. Gathering together and celebrating with family and friends…did I mention drinking a lot? Yule’s a GREAT Pagan holiday! Yes, my friends, the Puritans were right – Yule (by any other name smelling as sweet) is definitely NOT a Christian holiday.”
- We Want them Back! (A Pagan View of the Holidays), by Bluehawk, (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usga&c=holidays&id=10378)


If you want more info, visit my website: http://www.ChristmasTruth.info/

I think the Christians outnumber the pagans in saying it IS a Christian holiday.