So then, why do we do it 4 or more times a years and never on the actual passover date? Also, why do we still acknowledge Easter if we already celebrate the passover via "communion"?

I disagree with that. Our church celebrates Easter per se. And don't get me wrong. I have no problem with that. But its not at the right time period. I know we do the "communion", but 4 times a year? Why? And again I have no problem with this either.

pk

>>...but should celebrate the Christian Passover. Just like Jesus and the disciples did at the last supper,<<

Actually, there seems to be a bit of a dichotomy in the above statement. Jesus Christ and the disciples, should they have indeed celebrated a Pasch, did so in a manner not in keeping with its strictures, but celebrated instead, as you’ve noted – a Last Supper.

>>Christians should remember the death of Jesus at the appropriate time (at passover), not at a man-made, pagan infused, Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter).<<

That is not Biblically required. The Xtian should reprise the Last Supper:

1 Cor 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

in frequent remembrance – suggesting

more than a quarterly cycle.

>>Roman Catholic holiday (aka. Easter)<<

Indeed, a holy day for assembling... A day is no more and no less than how and by what - it is endued.

"As often as ye..." is in context of the event taking place, which was passover. If, for example, we're talking about the 9/11 memorial that happens every year on September 11th, and I say "as often as you celebrate this memorial, also send uncle bob in new york a postcard" I'm not implying that you need to send uncle bob a postcard more than once a year or even at some other time of the year. It just means that whenever you celebrate the 9/11 memorial (i.e. on September 11th every year), at that time also send uncle bob a postcard.

Same goes for the passover. That's clearly what they were celebrating, the bible calls it passover. And why would Jesus say "as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me"? Because until that point in time, they celebrated the passover as a remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt. Jesus was now changing the focus of Passover to His sacrifice instead of their deliverance from Egypt. That's all he was saying. He wasn't telling them that they should celebrate it every day, every week, every month, or every quarter. Also, if you do some historical research you'll find out that the early church kept the passover. Here are just a few quotes:


“The earliest Christians celebrated the Lord's Passover at the same time as the Jews, during the night of the first full moon of the first month of spring (Nisan 14-15). By the middle of the 2nd century, most churches had transferred this celebration to the Sunday after the Jewish feast. But certain churches of Asia Minor clung to the older custom, for which they were denounced as ‘judaizing'. The first ecumenical Council of Nicaea in 325 decreed that all churches should observe the feast together on a Sunday”
- The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edition, Macropaedia, Vol. 4, pp. 604-605, "Church Year".

“The Quartodecimans contentiously keep Passover on one day, once per year...They keep the Passover on whichever day the fourteenth of the month falls...Christ had to be slain on the fourteenth of the month in accordance with the law”
- Epiphanius. The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Books II and III (Sects 47-80), De Fide. Section IV, Verses 1,3;1,6;2,6. Translated by Frank Williams. EJ Brill, New York, 1994, pp. 23-25).

“There is no doubt that Apollinarius was a Quartodeciman...Those who kept Passover in the evening understood it to be a repetition of the Lord's Supper”
- Stewart-Sykes A. Melito of Sardis On Pascha. St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, Crestwood (NY), 2001, p. 81).

“Audians...they choose to celebrate the Passover with the Jews--that is they contentiously celebrate the Passover at the same time as the Jews are holding their Festival of Unleavened Bread. And indeed that this used to be the church's custom”
- Epiphanius. The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis, Books II and III (Sects 47-80), De Fide. Section VI, Verses 8,11; 9,2. Translated by Frank Williams. EJ Brill, New York, 1994, pp. 410-411.

“Anicetus argued for Easter while Polycarp, a student of the apostle John, defended observing ‘the Christian Passover, on the 14th of Nisan, the first month of the Jewish ecclesiastical calendar, regardless of the day of the week’ ”
- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edition, Micropaedia, Vol. 8, p. 94, "Polycarp".

>>"As often as ye..." is in context of the event taking place, which was passover.<<

Indeed, an “event” occurred in near-conjunction with the Vernal Equinox – with particulars transforming the “event” from a theretofore OT ritual to one correlating to a New Testament covenant; that is, it became parcel the sea change signified by Jesus Christ’s death.

>>If, for example, we're talking about the 9/11 memorial that happens every year on September 11th, and I say "as often as you celebrate this memorial, also send uncle bob in new york a postcard" I'm not implying that you need to send uncle bob a postcard more than once a year or even at some other time of the year. It just means that whenever you celebrate the 9/11 memorial (i.e. on September 11th every year), at that time also send uncle bob a postcard.<<

The significance of “Christ and Him crucified” and the sea change attending – as opposed to the mundane – leaves me a bit unappreciative of the proposed similitude.

>>Same goes for the passover. That's clearly what they were celebrating, the bible calls it passover.<<

There had occurred, by the time of Jesus Christ’s epiphany, many changes, which were introduced to the Jewish economy, for example: Pasch had become a celebration of 7-8 days duration – conflated with the Days of Unleavened Bread...

>>And why would Jesus say "as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me"? Because until that point in time, they celebrated the passover as a remembrance of their deliverance from Egypt.<<

1 Cor 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Often is often and textually, is not constrained; otherwise, indeed...,

and at the Last Supper Jesus Christ instituted another celebration saliently more than simple remembrance of a passage from Egypt – one signifying better things; that, Xtians celebrate this season.

>>Jesus was now changing the focus of Passover to His sacrifice instead of their deliverance from Egypt. That's all he was saying.<<

Okay, it was premature of me to respond (in the above) prior to reading the immediate statement proffered...

>>He wasn't telling them that they should celebrate it every day, every week, every month, or every quarter.<<

I reprise: “Often is often.”

>>Also, if you do some historical research you'll find out that the early church kept the passover.<<

Didn’t St Paul suggest that the blood required by antitypical feasts were, post-crucifixion – in fact, nullity? Wouldn’t an ecclesiastical keeping of a fulfilled OT ritual feast conflict with the majority understanding of the cheirographon being ‘nailed to the cross’?

I agree that many of the early church judaized by observing fulfilled feasts/Types; however,

one must assume that, though not requisite, the “early church kept the passover” Biblically – as unto the Lord, much as Sunday worshippers keep Sunday, as unto the Lord, yes?

>>Here are just a few quotes:

[...]<<

Observations upon certain ‘practices’ of early Xtians do not justify keeping Pasch by Xtians – nor do they, Biblically, proscribe the Xtian observance of Easter. In fact,

a better construction can be made from Writ for observing Easter than for Pasch.

Yes! I agree the blood (aka. a physical sacrifice) is not required after Jesus' death. But the day on which they celebrated is still the same day we should commemorate the same event. Our understanding of the cheirographon in Colossians is faulty. The feasts were definitely not nailed to the cross. For more info on that topic you can read the study located at www.LawInColossians.com




They weren't judaizing, they were simply keeping the commandments in Leviticus 23. They had a "Thus sayeth the LORD", something the Sunday worshipers never had.

Very good points FLO

pk

>>Yes! I agree the blood (aka. a physical sacrifice) is not required after Jesus' death. But the day on which they celebrated is still the same day we should commemorate the same event.<<

There was the OT Ecclesiastical calendar, there was the Jewish calendar at the time of Jesus Christ’s Epiphany, and there is the present Jewish calendar. None agree.

The OT priests were the ‘keepers’ of their calendar. It is readily admitted by Jews that the present calendar is not Biblical.

>>Our understanding of the cheirographon in Colossians is faulty. The feasts were definitely not nailed to the cross. For more info on that topic you can read the study located at www.LawInColossians.com<<

I haven’t time to check-out the link tonight; however, will do so at my earliest convenience. That said, I agree, current understanding of what, exactly, cheirographon means vis-à-vis the ‘articles’ nailed to the cross – is faulty.




>>They weren't judaizing, they were simply keeping the commandments in Leviticus 23.<<

In the middle of the first century this era, the author of Hebrews wrote the following:

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

>>They had a "Thus sayeth the LORD",<<

Pardon, but NO they did not have a “Thus sayeth...” - or rather, the NT Xtian did not have an applicable "Thus sayeth..."

Lam 2:6 And he hath violently taken away his tabernacle, as if it were of a garden: he hath destroyed his places of the assembly: the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion, and hath despised in the indignation of his anger the king and the priest.

Gd spoke through Jeremiah with a “Thus sayeth...”

KJV Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

Gd spoke through Hosea with a “Thus sayeth...”

Gd removed the calendrical reckoning from both of the confederated Houses of Israel - Judah and Ephraim.

>>something the Sunday worshipers never had.<<

Indeed, rather, the Sunday worshipers were confronted with an outstanding epistemological lacuna, which they filled with remembrance of the Saviour’s death and resurrection; that is Sunday observance.

Biblically, both observors may be correct, depending...

upon understanding and/or conviction.

These verses seem to be taken out of context. The former verse is speaking of all the terrible things that the presently captive Jews went through. With them captive in Babylon, there's no one left in Zion to continue the solemn feasts and sabbaths, and they are therefore being forgotten there. That's the consequences of what they've done. It, by no means, it trying to indicate that the LORD's feasts and sabbaths (Lev. 23) were something negative that needed to be taken out of the way.

Actually, in Leviticus 23, which says "These are the feasts of the LORD", and then goes on to list the weekly sabbath, followed by the yearly sabbaths. The feasts there are constantly referred to as HIS (God's) feasts, not anyone else's. So, that begs the question of who's "feasts, new moons, and sabbaths" the passage in Hosea is referring to. Verse 2 says "For she is not My wife, nor am I her Husband!", God is speaking about His unfaithful people. So when we read about "her feast days, her new moons..." in verse 11, it is clearly NOT the same ones that are spoken of in Leviticus 23, because those ones are HIS, not hers.

If you read the whole chapter (Hosea 2) it mentions their (or her) Baal worship practices, which means that they probably started mixing pagan practices with HIS feasts, and that's when they became their (or her) feasts. God's Feasts are pure and holy, and that's how He wants them kept. Once we start mixing pagan forms on worship with His Holy days, then we're not celebrating His Holy days anymore, but someone else's. That's why we need to separate ourselves from this ridiculous holiday called Easter, and start celebrating it as the Christian Passover, like the disciples and the early believers did.

Also, I agree that the modern rabbinical jewish calendar is far removed from the calendar described in the bible. However, for those who care to know, there are people that actually observe the biblical calendar. The Karaites are just one example. (http://www.karaite-korner.org/new_moon.shtml). Karaites are, i believe, the jewish equivalent of the protestants. They reject the rabbinical authority (just like the protestants reject the papal authority) and use the scriptures as their only basis of authority, thus they also reject the modern jewish calendar and instead have reverted back to using the biblical calendar. So yeah, my point is that with a little research, anyone can be keeping the biblical calendar, you don't need to be an OT priest to do so.

>>These verses seem to be taken out of context.<<

Per the use of “context” as device: though resorting to it occasionally, I usually attempt to avoid it – as it seems to suggest more of a ‘default’ position rather – than otherwise.

>>The former verse is speaking of all the terrible things that the presently captive Jews went through. With them captive in Babylon, there's no one left in Zion to continue the solemn feasts and sabbaths, and they are therefore being forgotten there.<<

Indeed; however, I’d ask for the subsequent and substantiating verses which would advise the Biblical expositor – that the verse is no more than contextual and that the OT Ecclesiastical calendar has since been restored to the Jews – certain of Nehemiah’s actions notwithstanding.

It is common stipulation by Jews that the present calendar is not Biblical; I’d further ask – when, then, was the Jew’s calendar actually “forgotten” – as opposed to ‘neglect’ per se?

An argument from hermeneutics may be posited that – from the actualization of Gd’s curse until restoration – seven ‘times’ (2520 years) passes over the cursed; at which time, a construction might be made for ‘restoration’.

>>That's the consequences of what they've done. It, by no means, it trying to indicate that the LORD's feasts and sabbaths (Lev. 23) were something negative that needed to be taken out of the way.<<

Indeed not; the “feasts and sabbaths” were not intrinsically “negative”. As far as the Seventh-day Sabbath..., I’ve already proposed that Writ advises us Gd removed the Seventh-day Sabbath to prevent its continuing profanation before the heathen and to preserve its hallowedness. Therefor, Gd secreted its calendrical reckoning – until such time – as the millennial reign.

>>Actually, in Leviticus 23, which says "These are the feasts of the LORD", and then goes on to list the weekly sabbath, followed by the yearly sabbaths. The feasts there are constantly referred to as HIS (God's) feasts, not anyone else's.<<

“What the King giveth, the King taketh.”

The foregoing is axiomatic; nevertheless, the yearly feasts continued, with Gd only – being aware of the exactness, that they, in their appointed time, might be fulfilled. Being fulfilled,

there remains no continuance... What’s that say about the Autumnal Feasts?

>>So, that begs the question of who's "feasts, new moons, and sabbaths" the passage in Hosea is referring to.<<

Whilst the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths” remained, they’re both Gd’s and the COI’s – as Gd had given the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths”; no, not quite true – had commanded them.

>>Verse 2 says "For she is not My wife, nor am I her Husband!", God is speaking about His unfaithful people. So when we read about "her feast days, her new moons..." in verse 11, it is clearly NOT the same ones that are spoken of in Leviticus 23, because those ones are HIS, not hers.<<

Without presently parsing the above, recall that Hosea was prophesying to the Northern Kingdom of Ephraim. Do the tribes of that kingdom currently practice observance of the “feasts, new moons, and sabbaths” of Hosea 2:11?—or have they, for the past several millennia? If so, where?

It is prima facie that the OT Ecclesiastical calendar was removed from the tribes of the Northern Confederacy. It no longer exists and has not since their collapse, captivity, and subsequent migrations...

>>If you read the whole chapter (Hosea 2) it mentions their (or her) Baal worship practices, which means that they probably started mixing pagan practices with HIS feasts, and that's when they became their (or her) feasts. God's Feasts are pure and holy, and that's how He wants them kept. Once we start mixing pagan forms on worship with His Holy days, then we're not celebrating His Holy days anymore, but someone else's. That's why we need to separate ourselves from this ridiculous holiday called Easter, and start celebrating it as the Christian Passover, like the disciples and the early believers did.<<

I urge – that we not conflate Ephraim with Judah...

>>Also, I agree that the modern rabbinical jewish calendar is far removed from the calendar described in the bible. However, for those who care to know, there are people that actually observe the biblical calendar. The Karaites are just one example. (http://www.karaite-korner.org/new_moon.shtml). Karaites are, i believe, the jewish equivalent of the protestants. They reject the rabbinical authority (just like the protestants reject the papal authority) and use the scriptures as their only basis of authority, thus they also reject the modern jewish calendar and instead have reverted back to using the biblical calendar. So yeah, my point is that with a little research, anyone can be keeping the biblical calendar, you don't need to be an OT priest to do so.<<

I agree that the Karaites observe to their own contentment; however, aside from their determination of exactly when the new moon occurs over Jerusalem and when the barley is ripe unto the harvest, etc...

They’ve not established whether the solar calendar the OT COI used was one of 360 days, 365 days, or one of 365¼ days incorporating interstices – for instance:

How do they reconcile, should Nisan 14 occur upon a Wednesday, their buying, selling, and carting of goats and lambs upon a Saturday, Nisan 10? Seems to me that the only condition allowing same – would be a calendar incorporating

an interstice; otherwise, the proscription against working upon the Sabbath becomes problematic.