I didn't see where he said anything that wasn't true.



Nobody wants to read that stuff, (maybe you) it doesn't prove anything, other than the fact that you put a lot of faith in the opinions of men.

You said:



It certainly doesn't look like he's saying this. Do you have some other quote that suggests that he said what you claimed?

If what one says is true, that's *more* reason to write in a non-confrontational, non-pejorative way.



That's not true. All you can say is you don't want to read it, but you're not everyone. I know many have been blessed by what Ty's written. I'd actually be surprised if John317, just to name one (who seems to share your viewpoint) wasn't interested in reading it. And there are others who don't share your viewpoint to consider as well.



I believe things because they resonate with my soul, not because of who wrote them. I didn't post what he wrote to "prove" anything, but because I was asked my opinion, and Ty communicates what I've been trying to say very eloquently.

Ok

Please don't do this. Please don't ask me to read what Ty wrote and then extrapolate your answer to my question. As you know, it never ends well. It is more expedient for you to simply answer my question. Please respect my wishes. Thank you.

We've discussed this. I answered this at length just a few posts ago. The short answer is that God is caused to remove His protection.



I doubt this. Can you quote something please? I've said that holy angels protect us from a thousand dangers, all of them unseen. Could it be this is what you have in mind?



This is just misrepresentation. Please don't do this.



This is an interesting question. First of all, what's the point of the question? That is, why are you asking it? Suppose one were to answer the question, "Yes, this is true" What would your point be?

To answer your question, I think the answer is no, Christ didn't have to work to prevent natural disasters. I think the causes of natural disasters arose from sin.

For example, let's pick one. Hurricanes. Before sin came into the picture, was it necessary for Jesus to act to prevent them from occurring? No, because the conditions necessary for hurricanes to form didn't exist, and couldn't exist, as there weren't any oceans, to name just one thing.

Did you have some natural disaster in mind? You could suggest it, and we could consider it.

When one reads that "the understanding of the people of God has been blinded, for Satan has misrepresented the character of God. Our good and gracious Lord has been presented before the people clothed in the attributes of Satan," (1 S.M.355) should not the one question immediately come to mind? How is Satan misrepresenting the character of God?

What is the lie (misrepresentation) of Satan regarding the character of God? Is it that God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression but that He leaves the rejecters of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown?

Is it to teach that God's judgments do not come directly out from the Lord upon the disobedient but in this way--they place themselves beyond His protection?

Or is it to teach that God does directly destroy those who do not appreciate His work or act contrary to His ideas?

Which is it?

sky

Did God give Moses leprosy?

Exodus 4:6 And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand [was] leprous as snow.

And Miriam?

Numbers 12:9, 10 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against them; and he departed. And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow.

I don't think so.



I'll compromise. Here's a small portion from what Ty wrote, so you don't have to read the whole thing:



Especially to the point is:



Suffering is inherent to sin, because sin is based on the principle of selfishness. Selfishness, "me first", can only lead to misery, suffering, and death.

I know you didn't direct this question to me, but I'd like to examine it anyway if I may.

My question is, why do human beings suffer mentally and psychologically for their sins now, at the present time?

It seems obvious to me that we suffer pangs of conscience not because we are naturally good but ONLY because of the convictions and the work of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit, we would all love sinning and every sort of evil imaginable.

Now the wicked at the end of time will not have the Holy Spirit. That seems pretty obvious. They will actually have demons influencing them. They will be filled with hatred and every concievable kind of lust and hatred.

Why then would they be so filled with remorse and self-loathing that they would die from those feelings and thoughts?

The answer is that nowhere in Scripture or the Spirit of prophecy are we given evidence that the wicked die of a broken heart over their sins or over the loss of eternal life. If we analyze the events as they occur, we find that the wicked spend very little time in remorse or in confessing that God is right. They're primarily consumed with hatred for God and with a desire to destroy holy city. But then when they see that can't be successful, and they realize that all is lost, they turn against Satan and his wicked angels. According to Ellen White, it's while they are attempting to attack Satan that the fire comes down from God out of heaven and devours them. However, the "devouring" takes some time. She says some perish as in a moment, while others suffer "many days." Satan is the last to die, but "he is still to live and suffer on." In the same paragraph, Mrs. White says Satan "is MADE to suffer."

How can anyone reconcile these clear statements with the idea that these things won't happen?

I would ask anyone who believes God will not destroy the wicked in fire to please restudy the following (if they have not recently read them):

5 BC 1122; 3 SG 83-87; 7 BC 946; GC 671-673; EW 294-295; GC 664-666; 3 BC 1142; EW 51-54; EW 221 (SR 391); 7 BC 986; ML 355.