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#88829 - 2006-07-13 09:39:05 SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
james423 Offline

Past the 700 posts

Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 835
Loc: Dayton, Tennessee
Here are some questions I might ask my Sabbath School class to get the discussion started or help the discussion to continue:

1. What do we know about the little horn of Daniel 7?

2. How does the little horn fit in with the other empires prophesied in Daniel 7?

3. How should we relate to the people depicted by the little horn?

In view of Daniel 7 and the little horn prophecy, how should we relate to Catholics?
Only one choice allowed


Votes accepted starting: 2006-07-13 09:32:00
View the results of this poll.
_________________________
James Brenneman

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#88830 - 2006-07-13 12:23:21 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: jared]
Gail Offline
Mom to lots of chickies


Registered: 2002-12-09
Posts: 23090
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
Ah yes, the old "us" and "them" mindset and where that gets us...

Not to say that that isn't the way it is, but it can lead some Christians to do some very unChristlike things. We need to be careful that we don't get into the exclusive and untouchable mode

How do we work with God in warning the world without working against him in becoming judgmental because of what we know?
_________________________
Gail

A heart set on love will do no wrong- Confucius

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

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#88831 - 2006-07-13 23:03:41 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: jared]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1125
Loc: Northern California
The Beast with 10 horns comes into being near the end of time for Earth. This is the merciless, murderous, one-world government of Satan, administered at first by 10 rulers. After internal strife, 3 rulers are deposed and replaced by another, apparently weak at first, but rapidly growing to an amazing level of power.

This cruel power will be responsible for the vicious persecution and deaths of many of God's people just before Christ's return.

The other three empires, practically harmless compared to the fourth empire, have come and gone long ago, yet there may still be some elements of those incorporated into the last Evil Empire.

Those following the Little Big Horn will share Satan's propensity for deceit, intolerance of True Worshippers of God, and the heartless destruction of helpless human beings. Human life is like dung under his feet, unless he can use you for his own purposes.

There will be a choice, obey Satan masquerading as something else, and live, or refuse to deny the One-and-Only True God and die.

Revelation has other descriptions of this kingdom, the 7-head 10-horn dragons/beasts of Rev 12, 13, and 17.

I think it would be a serious mistake to try to identify any particular religion in the actions of the Little Big Horn or the 10-horned beast. Here we have a powerful extraterrestrial being "invading" the world. Most religions will likely be voluntarily discarded and abandoned as misguided and irrelevant. Just a relatively few hardheads won’t give up following their God, causing themselves a lot of trouble.

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#88832 - 2006-07-15 16:34:41 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: ]
james423 Offline

Past the 700 posts

Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 835
Loc: Dayton, Tennessee
Quote:

Aliensanctuary said:

I think it would be a serious mistake to try to identify any particular religion in the actions of the Little Big Horn or the 10-horned beast.




All through Daniel 2 and 7 God tells exactly the powers and the characteristics of the powers that fight the great struggle between Christ and Satan. The chapter is very specific about the identities of the other three empires - Babylon, Persia, and Greece. Since the chapter was so specific about the identities of the other powers, what makes it a "serious mistake" to identify the fourth beast as Rome, which began as the Roman Empire and ends as the Roman Catholic Church?
_________________________
James Brenneman

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#88833 - 2006-07-15 22:03:47 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: jared]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1125
Loc: Northern California
Quote:

--NKJ
7. "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.





This 4th beast appears suddenly as a destructive monster. Is Rome at this very moment a powerful, destructive power, leaving nothing standing or intact?

Just before the 2nd Coming of Christ, Satan will rule this slave-world in person, leaving a trail of martyr's blood. Maybe the Roman Church, the "official" SDA Church, and other religions will play a part, but if so, only for a very short time, just to save their own skins. Once Satan is in full control, all of the world's Christian religions will be trash-canned, mainly because, I don't think Satan likes Jesus enough to tolerate Jesus-worship.

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#88834 - 2006-07-18 02:03:50 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1125
Loc: Northern California
If the 4th beast is Rome, then the Little Horn could be the AntiChrist. Did Rome destroy everything in its initial conquests?

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#88835 - 2006-07-18 10:36:14 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: ]
Beryl Offline


Registered: 2003-04-05
Posts: 2427
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Quote:

If the 4th beast is Rome, then the Little Horn could be the AntiChrist. Did Rome destroy everything in its initial conquests?




If you re-read Daniel 7, you will find that the 4th beast (Rome) follows IMMEDIATELY after Greece. Then comes the 10 horns, (10 smaller kingdoms), which DO NOT REPLACE Rome, as Rome, in its pagan form, still carries on. There is no break between pagan Rome and papal Rome. It is still all Rome, with this new religious power speaking great things -- changing times and laws, wearing out the saints of the Most High. Papal Rome has already done this.

God said that "evening and morning" (sunset to sunset) marked the beginning and end of each day. Rome pronounced that the day would begin and end at midnight.

God said, "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" Papal Rome said, Keep Sunday holy.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would take His place on this earth. Papal Rome said the pope was the "Vicar of Christ" -- placing a human in the place of the Holy Spirit.

God said that his power (the little horn) would "wear out the saints of the Most High" -- he has already done that during the Dark Ages -- and we will find, as we study Revelation 13, that he will do it AGAIN.

We cannot take a mighty leap from pagan Rome to the Antichrist at the end of the world without seeing the continuity of Pagan Rome blended in to Papal Rome, and continuing AS THE SAME POWER to the end of the world.

Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."

But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9.

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#88836 - 2006-07-18 11:51:46 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: ]
Gerry Cabalo Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13330
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
Methinks you've been watching or reading the "left Behind" series too much?

Gerry

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#88837 - 2006-07-19 02:28:23 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: ]
Aliensanctuary Offline


Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1125
Loc: Northern California
Quote:

Methinks you've been watching or reading the "left Behind" series too much?





I've never watched or read "Left Behind". I generally don't like to read fiction. I just happened to see the idea of the Little Horn as antichrist in a Bible commentary.

I'm just having difficulty accepting this belief, that the 4th Beast is continuous from Greece to the Kingdom of God, even though it may look that way.

Somehow, I was thinking there must be a gap, because I was not able to correlate the extremely destructive iron-toothed beast with the Roman Empire. Although the Roman Empire did destroy the Jewish Temple because of a revolt, I believe.

These 4 Beasts/Empires conquered and controlled Israel, and I assume that that's why they were mentioned. Is Rome still controlling Israel?

If the beast of Dan 7 correlates to the beasts of Rev 12, 13, and 17, then the three horns destroyed and replaced by the Little Big Horn may correspond to the mortally wounded head of the beast of Rev 13. This Little Big Horn is one of Satan's agents, if not Satan himself, claiming to be God, the Creator, deceiving all of those who did not study the Scriptures.

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#88838 - 2006-07-19 10:42:08 Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll [Re: ]
Gerry Cabalo Online   content


Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13330
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
I believe Beryl made a good case.

Go back to Daniel 2 to get the general outline of prophetic world history. The rest of the prophecies of Daniel go over the same ground, but each time with more detail to fill in in the general outline.

In Daniel 2, the 4 world empires are: Babylone, Medo-Persia, Greek Empire, and Rome. Most commentators agree on this. The 4th empire loses its strength, some see the 2 legs as representing the break-up into the eastern & western Roman Empire, and then the feet of part clay & part iron as the break-up into smaller kingdoms/nations, some with the strength of iron & some as fragile as ceramic clay.

Daniel 7 goes over the same first three empires but now fills in more detail in the fourth. Pagan Rome definitely succeeded the Greek. That is a historical fact. That the Roman Empire disintegrated into the smaller nations of Europe after the barbarian invasions is also a matter of history. Commentators have some minor differences in the identifications of the 10 horns, but they pretty much agree on most of them.

That a little horn came up and before whom 3 of the 10 were uprooted and then later became more stout/greater than the 10 is also a matter of history. A phoenix arose from the ashes of pagan Rome in the colossus (as someone described it) of what came to be papal Rome. The papacy became so powerful that the kings of Europe bowed to papal power. That came to an end when the pope was taken prisoner, thus receiving the deadly would of the beast in Rev 13. The Apostle John, however, foresaw the healing of that deadly wound. The papacy has regained much of that power & prestige. It is the greatest moral force in Christendom today. We even have an ambassador to the Vatican now. Our present and recent presidents consult with the pope. Even many protestant leaders have warmed up to the pope.

EGW predicted that Protestants will stretch their hands across the gulf & clasp the hand of Rome. We are now seeing that with our own eyes.

Gerry

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