#88829 - 2006-07-13 09:39:05
SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
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Past the 700 posts
Registered: 2005-01-21
Posts: 837
Loc: Dayton, Tennessee
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Here are some questions I might ask my Sabbath School class to get the discussion started or help the discussion to continue: 1. What do we know about the little horn of Daniel 7? 2. How does the little horn fit in with the other empires prophesied in Daniel 7? 3. How should we relate to the people depicted by the little horn? 
_________________________
James Brenneman
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#88830 - 2006-07-13 12:23:21
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: jared]
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Mom to lots of chickies
Registered: 2002-12-09
Posts: 23124
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
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Ah yes, the old "us" and "them" mindset and where that gets us...
Not to say that that isn't the way it is, but it can lead some Christians to do some very unChristlike things. We need to be careful that we don't get into the exclusive and untouchable mode
How do we work with God in warning the world without working against him in becoming judgmental because of what we know?
_________________________
Gail
A heart set on love will do no wrong- Confucius
And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17
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#88831 - 2006-07-13 23:03:41
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: jared]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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The Beast with 10 horns comes into being near the end of time for Earth. This is the merciless, murderous, one-world government of Satan, administered at first by 10 rulers. After internal strife, 3 rulers are deposed and replaced by another, apparently weak at first, but rapidly growing to an amazing level of power.
This cruel power will be responsible for the vicious persecution and deaths of many of God's people just before Christ's return.
The other three empires, practically harmless compared to the fourth empire, have come and gone long ago, yet there may still be some elements of those incorporated into the last Evil Empire.
Those following the Little Big Horn will share Satan's propensity for deceit, intolerance of True Worshippers of God, and the heartless destruction of helpless human beings. Human life is like dung under his feet, unless he can use you for his own purposes.
There will be a choice, obey Satan masquerading as something else, and live, or refuse to deny the One-and-Only True God and die.
Revelation has other descriptions of this kingdom, the 7-head 10-horn dragons/beasts of Rev 12, 13, and 17.
I think it would be a serious mistake to try to identify any particular religion in the actions of the Little Big Horn or the 10-horned beast. Here we have a powerful extraterrestrial being "invading" the world. Most religions will likely be voluntarily discarded and abandoned as misguided and irrelevant. Just a relatively few hardheads won’t give up following their God, causing themselves a lot of trouble.
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#88833 - 2006-07-15 22:03:47
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: jared]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Quote:
--NKJ
7. "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
This 4th beast appears suddenly as a destructive monster. Is Rome at this very moment a powerful, destructive power, leaving nothing standing or intact?
Just before the 2nd Coming of Christ, Satan will rule this slave-world in person, leaving a trail of martyr's blood. Maybe the Roman Church, the "official" SDA Church, and other religions will play a part, but if so, only for a very short time, just to save their own skins. Once Satan is in full control, all of the world's Christian religions will be trash-canned, mainly because, I don't think Satan likes Jesus enough to tolerate Jesus-worship.
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#88835 - 2006-07-18 10:36:14
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2003-04-05
Posts: 2427
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
If the 4th beast is Rome, then the Little Horn could be the AntiChrist. Did Rome destroy everything in its initial conquests?
If you re-read Daniel 7, you will find that the 4th beast (Rome) follows IMMEDIATELY after Greece. Then comes the 10 horns, (10 smaller kingdoms), which DO NOT REPLACE Rome, as Rome, in its pagan form, still carries on. There is no break between pagan Rome and papal Rome. It is still all Rome, with this new religious power speaking great things -- changing times and laws, wearing out the saints of the Most High. Papal Rome has already done this.
God said that "evening and morning" (sunset to sunset) marked the beginning and end of each day. Rome pronounced that the day would begin and end at midnight.
God said, "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God" Papal Rome said, Keep Sunday holy.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit would take His place on this earth. Papal Rome said the pope was the "Vicar of Christ" -- placing a human in the place of the Holy Spirit.
God said that his power (the little horn) would "wear out the saints of the Most High" -- he has already done that during the Dark Ages -- and we will find, as we study Revelation 13, that he will do it AGAIN.
We cannot take a mighty leap from pagan Rome to the Antichrist at the end of the world without seeing the continuity of Pagan Rome blended in to Papal Rome, and continuing AS THE SAME POWER to the end of the world.
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9.
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#88836 - 2006-07-18 11:51:46
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Methinks you've been watching or reading the "left Behind" series too much?
Gerry
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#88837 - 2006-07-19 02:28:23
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Quote:
Methinks you've been watching or reading the "left Behind" series too much?
I've never watched or read "Left Behind". I generally don't like to read fiction. I just happened to see the idea of the Little Horn as antichrist in a Bible commentary.
I'm just having difficulty accepting this belief, that the 4th Beast is continuous from Greece to the Kingdom of God, even though it may look that way.
Somehow, I was thinking there must be a gap, because I was not able to correlate the extremely destructive iron-toothed beast with the Roman Empire. Although the Roman Empire did destroy the Jewish Temple because of a revolt, I believe.
These 4 Beasts/Empires conquered and controlled Israel, and I assume that that's why they were mentioned. Is Rome still controlling Israel?
If the beast of Dan 7 correlates to the beasts of Rev 12, 13, and 17, then the three horns destroyed and replaced by the Little Big Horn may correspond to the mortally wounded head of the beast of Rev 13. This Little Big Horn is one of Satan's agents, if not Satan himself, claiming to be God, the Creator, deceiving all of those who did not study the Scriptures.
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#88838 - 2006-07-19 10:42:08
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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I believe Beryl made a good case.
Go back to Daniel 2 to get the general outline of prophetic world history. The rest of the prophecies of Daniel go over the same ground, but each time with more detail to fill in in the general outline.
In Daniel 2, the 4 world empires are: Babylone, Medo-Persia, Greek Empire, and Rome. Most commentators agree on this. The 4th empire loses its strength, some see the 2 legs as representing the break-up into the eastern & western Roman Empire, and then the feet of part clay & part iron as the break-up into smaller kingdoms/nations, some with the strength of iron & some as fragile as ceramic clay.
Daniel 7 goes over the same first three empires but now fills in more detail in the fourth. Pagan Rome definitely succeeded the Greek. That is a historical fact. That the Roman Empire disintegrated into the smaller nations of Europe after the barbarian invasions is also a matter of history. Commentators have some minor differences in the identifications of the 10 horns, but they pretty much agree on most of them.
That a little horn came up and before whom 3 of the 10 were uprooted and then later became more stout/greater than the 10 is also a matter of history. A phoenix arose from the ashes of pagan Rome in the colossus (as someone described it) of what came to be papal Rome. The papacy became so powerful that the kings of Europe bowed to papal power. That came to an end when the pope was taken prisoner, thus receiving the deadly would of the beast in Rev 13. The Apostle John, however, foresaw the healing of that deadly wound. The papacy has regained much of that power & prestige. It is the greatest moral force in Christendom today. We even have an ambassador to the Vatican now. Our present and recent presidents consult with the pope. Even many protestant leaders have warmed up to the pope.
EGW predicted that Protestants will stretch their hands across the gulf & clasp the hand of Rome. We are now seeing that with our own eyes.
Gerry
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#88839 - 2006-07-19 13:05:45
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts
Registered: 2002-05-18
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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The Roman Empire disintegrated into the small nations of Europe"
Is this shift in focus logical? The Roman Empire included all of North Africa and most of the Greek empire and remained so into the 8th century. Daniel was not concerned with Europe but was being shown what would happen to HIS land and HIS people as in chapters 10 and 11.
It is convenient to ignore some things in order to have a neat package but is it ethical? Can it be proved that only that relatively small western part of the Roman Empire is intended in the prophecy?
mel
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#88840 - 2006-07-19 15:12:56
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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I don't see a contradiction. Man may make distinctions as far as the visible people of God is concerned, but if you go back to Daniel 2, the stone that was cut out of a mountain that represents God's kingdom, it makes no distinction between the believers before and after the 70 wks probation for the Jews. As far as God is concerned, there is "neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free," etc. etc., all are one in Christ Jesus. Neither is the woman that represent the church in Rev 12 shown as either Jew or Gentile. Daniel may not be concerned with Europe, but God may. Besides, the visions he had went way beyond his time, up to the Second Coming.
The Vandals of North Africa was one of the three horns uprooted with the appearance of the "little horn" that became greater than the rest, and disappeared.
BTW, if you can add your input into the discussion, perhaps things will become clearer. I do not present my views as the last word on the understanding of this prophecy or any prophecy. What I am presenting is not original with me, but seems to be most consistent and reasonable to me.
Gerry
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#88841 - 2006-08-04 23:38:00
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Quote:
-- New Living Translation
Daniel 7:7 Then in my vision that night, I saw a fourth beast, terrifying, dreadful, and very strong. It devoured and crushed its victims with huge iron teeth and trampled what was left beneath its feet. It was different from any of the other beasts, and it had ten horns.
This is a huge, alien, People-Smashing Machine. It snatches up it victims, crushes them into a pulp with People-Crushing Teeth, strips off all of the meat and soft tissue, then spits out all of the bone fragments. If we see one of these machines, it's already too late. Then we might be processed into hot dogs or lunch meat, a tasty treat for a ravenously hungry beast at the end of the world.
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#88842 - 2006-08-05 00:56:12
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts
Registered: 2002-05-18
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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Seems plain that the beast had ten horns when Daniel first saw it. Why is it fair to assume that the ten horns arrived on the scene centuries later?
mel
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#88843 - 2006-08-05 13:34:31
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Quote:
melvin mccarty said:
Seems plain that the beast had ten horns when Daniel first saw it. Why is it fair to assume that the ten horns arrived on the scene centuries later?
mel
It may be fair to assume that, but that is not what happened. If that is not Rome with the subsequent appearance of the 10 kingdoms, do you have a better explanation?
Gerry
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#88844 - 2006-08-05 15:28:15
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Quote:
melvin mccarty said:
Seems plain that the beast had ten horns when Daniel first saw it. Why is it fair to assume that the ten horns arrived on the scene centuries later?
mel
If Rome does not fit the Ten-Horned People-Smashing One-World Government, then what other candidates do we have that arose after the demise of the Greek Empire?
How was Rome that much different from its predecessors. It used swords and spears and knives just like they did. It’s powers of destruction were just as limited as theirs were, mainly by brute force, a little steel, and a little fire.
Quote:
--NKJ Revelation 12
1. Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
2. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.
3. And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4. His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.
I don't have any dates for the fall of the Greek Empire, but, not very long afterward, Satan's forces came to Earth to attack the Woman giving birth to the Iron Rod Child. The NT writers did seem to speak the Greek language.
Satan's Kingdom on Earth is indicated by the number 10 and the number 7, that is, the 10 horns and the 7 heads. God's Kingdom on Earth are the numbers 12 and 7. Anything related to the Earth is indicated by the number 7.
(Remember when Jesus fed the 5,000 plus people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 dried fish? That’s the 7. How many basketfuls were left over? That’s the 12. Jesus was telling the people that when the kingdom of God arrived on Earth, they would never go hungry.)
Therefore, Satan's forces, his Kingdom, this 10-horned 7-headed Beast/Government did actually appear on Earth around the time of the Messiah, as indicated in Rev 12. Although it did try to destroy Jesus, it didn’t seem to do much, if any, physical damage at that time, but, the important thing to note, it was there, even though few may have been aware of it.
Maybe Satan's kingdom is still on this planet, locked up in the Abyss since Jesus' death, until the time for its release arrives. Then the Beast awakens and asserts its control over the entire world, destroying everything and everyone who does not cooperate, with weapons we can’t even imagine.
Rome is nothing, the pope is nothing, when compared to Satan's One World People-Smashing End-Times Government.
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#88845 - 2006-08-05 19:11:51
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Quote:
Rome is nothing, the pope is nothing, when compared to Satan's One World People-Smashing End-Times Government.
Do you see Satan working directly? Do you see God working directly?
Fact is, they both work through people, nations, & different agencies/organizations.
Gerry
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#88846 - 2006-08-05 19:13:32
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts
Registered: 2002-05-18
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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I'm sorry..but I was in no way intimating that I did nor believe that Rome was the fourth beast. Didn't say that at all did I?
I will try again. The Roman empire came into existence some time before Christ's first advent and when Daniel saw it coming out of the water it differed from the previous beasts by having 10 horns. The Roman empire at that time included all of what had been the Grecian empire and much more including all of North Africa. Why do the ten horns then need to be only in the western part of the empire? I dont see the beast having NO horns for several centuries, do you? Do you have a reasonable explanation for the ten horns being only in Europe and ignoring the eastern part of the empire including Palestine and Egypt etc.?
mel
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#88847 - 2006-08-06 00:23:26
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 2003-11-11
Posts: 5316
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Back to the original question.
Of what use is it to preach to Catholics this prophecy when what they need most is the love of the Lord? Wouldn't it be wiser to preach to them Christ and the plan of salvation through grace than to show them prophecy that not all Adventists agree upon?
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#88848 - 2006-08-06 07:14:35
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Is the prophecy only for non-catholics?
Gerry
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#88849 - 2006-08-06 08:09:53
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2003-11-11
Posts: 5316
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No, not at all, but that's not what the original question asked.
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#88850 - 2006-08-08 14:14:54
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: CaregiverDee]
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Registered: 2000-03-20
Posts: 13332
Loc: Wilkesboro, NC
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Of course, it is better to preach/teach what matters most first, i.e. Jesus, salvation by grace, but at some point, those prophetic matters will come up.
Gerry
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#88851 - 2006-08-26 20:23:35
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Stand by for another unorthodox idea...
The 4-Metal Statue in Dan 2, the 4 Beasts arising from the turbulent sea in Dan 7, the Goat and the Ram of Dan 8, and the 7-Headed Lion/Bear/Leopard Beast of Rev 13 represent the same End Times events.
The 3 Metal/Animal/Beast symbols are the identifiers of the 3 "horns", nations or empires, which are displaced by the 4th Metal/Beast. The Little Big Horn, either Satan or a being he controls completely, then occupies its victim's territory and continues with its subjugation of the human race.
The Iron Legs and Feet, the 4th Iron-Toothed Beast, and the 7-Headed Lion/Bear/Leopard Beast represent Satan's Occupation Government controlling our planet. The Earth at the time of their appearance becomes a vast battlefield, its civilizations all but destroyed in the War between Satan and Michael and their forces.
Ultimately, Satan's forces are marooned on our planet, but not without inflicting serious damage to Zion, the City of God ransacking and destroying the Real Temple and using it for a latrine.
The destruction of Zion may not have been intended by God, but that's what happened, and that's what the Messengers from the future told us what would happen in our future. The Forces of Good are seemingly defeated, but suddenly the battle turns and they win a stunning victory over the Forces of Evil.
I think we should leave the poor Catholics out of our End Times Scenarios. They've got enough problems with pedophiles and celibacy.
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#88852 - 2006-08-26 20:43:04
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Pol
[Re: ]
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Past the 700 posts
Registered: 2003-11-21
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
Aliensanctuary said:
This is the merciless, murderous, one-world government ... After internal strife, 3 rulers are deposed and replaced by another, apparently weak at first, but rapidly growing to an amazing level of power.
This cruel power will be responsible for the vicious persecution and deaths of many of God's people just before Christ's return ...
... Those following the Little Big Horn will share Satan's propensity for deceit, intolerance of True Worshippers of God, and the heartless destruction of helpless human beings...
I think it would be a serious mistake to try to identify any particular religion in the actions of the Little Big Horn or the 10-horned beast.
I agree. Just present the characteristics and be done with it, and let people make up their minds on their own what fits those characteristics through their own observations and experience. Jesus demonstrated and taught a sufficiently perfect revelation of love and selflessness to provide us with a "True God" template against which to contrast the false. Delineate the characteristics in terms of themselves, and leave the interpretation of "what fulfills this?" to the individual hearer. The Holy Spirit and the self-revealing nature of reality will do the rest quite nicely.
Just my opinion.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#88853 - 2006-08-27 13:44:00
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: jared]
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Registered: 2002-09-04
Posts: 4699
Loc: New England
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Quote:
Since the chapter was so specific about the identities of the other powers, what makes it a "serious mistake" to identify the fourth beast as Rome, which began as the Roman Empire and ends as the Roman Catholic Church?
Taking for granted that the identification with the Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic church through the Dark Ages is correct, is it a mistake to keep that limited identification into the 21C?
The Empire's best equivalent today is not one country, but the whole of "Western Civilization".
The Dark Ages RCC's best equivalent today is ALL organized Christianity.
Why is it valid to restrict the interpretation to just one denomination?
/Bevin
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#88854 - 2006-08-27 14:12:10
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: Mandy]
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**Rest in Peace or friend, you are missed**
Past the 700 posts
Registered: 2002-05-18
Posts: 855
Loc: B,C.
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Nobody had an answer for my question either Bevin!!! Are we discouraged? Never!...lol
mel
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#88855 - 2006-08-29 20:14:54
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: chloesnana]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Compared to the destruction and reign of terror of Satan's Future Worldwide Empire of Ten, the worst that Rome could ever deliver in the Dark Ages was more like a Sunday School picnic, a little bonfire here, a little torture there, maybe a drowning or two. That's because, even though Rome as a persecutor could be cruel and merciless, it is nothing compared to the complete disregard of humanity by Satan and his inhuman followers.
These beasts may represent a future repeat of or reference to history, that is, the short-term reappearance of Babylon, Mede-Persia, and Greece, maybe because the seat of some future empires could be located in the capitals or territory of the former empires.
If Satan and followers are now locked up in the prison of the Abyss, there is a time when they will be released. Perhaps this Abyss is located at the bottom of an ocean on this planet, or it is located in another part of the solar system such as a frozen moon or planet, or in some other dimension, and connected somehow to an Earth ocean via a gate or wormhole.
The churning sea may indicate the release of Satan's Hordes from the depths. Immediately upon their release they attempt to escape the planet but are flung back by Michael, our prince, and his forces.
Too bad Satan's Hordes wrecked Zion and almost won the Battle of Earth. It would be a sad, sad universe if they did win.
It was very nice of God to let us know how it all turned out.
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#88856 - 2006-09-09 20:29:33
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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The visions of Daniel could possibly have a dual application, as we sometimes assume other prophecies have had. The first application was in the present and near future of Daniel when he lived. If this is true, then Rome and the RCC could very loosely represent the 4th Beast, although its destructive power upon arising was not exactly impressive by our standards of mass-destruction. Quote:
NLT---Dan 7: 9-12
9. I watched as thrones were put in place and the Ancient One* sat down to judge . His clothing was as white as snow, his hair like whitest wool. He sat on a fiery throne with wheels of blazing fire,
10. and a river of fire flowed from his presence. Millions of angels ministered to him, and a hundred million stood to attend him. Then the court began its session, and the books were opened.
11. I continued to watch because I could hear the little horn's boastful speech. I kept watching until the fourth beast was killed and its body was destroyed by fire.
12. As for the other three beasts, their authority was taken from them, but they were allowed to live for a while longer.
The above verses indicate that the first 3 Beasts still exist, but are powerless, following an Examination of the Books, the Judgement, and the Execution of the Sentence by the destruction of the 4th Beast. The Books, we assume, must contain the life records of the rejected humans and Satan's evil followers, members of the 4th Beast Worldwide Empire.
After the destruction of the 4th Beast, the Evil Worldwide Kingdom of Satan, One Who Looked Like a Man arrives in the cloudy skies to receive his kingdom, the Kingdom of New Earth. This all occurs, not at the 2nd Coming of Christ, but at the 3rd, following the 1000 years of Satan and Company's imprisonment on Earth.
First the countless hordes of Gogue and Magogue watch the destruction of Satan and the leaders of his Evil Kingdom, then, it's their turn to burn. Human life could not exist for more than a few moments in a blazing inferno hot enough to melt rocks and incinerate the surface of the Earth.
There's no torture, no everlasting torment because it's all over in just a few seconds for the poor humans who did not qualify for membership in the Kingdom of New Earth. Now they must be completely destroyed like we would destroy an extremely dangerous biological organism.
We can see from these verses that these 4 Beasts will all co-exist during the End Times. We could ID them as Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, and might be right, but they just may be something we cannot imagine at this time, also.
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#88857 - 2006-09-12 20:33:26
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: ]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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Here's something interesting: Quote:
NKJ--Dan 7:2, 3, 17
2. ...the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea.
3. "And four great beasts came up from the sea .
17. `Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth .
Upon the 2nd Resurrection, a seething worldwide ocean of people will appear, maybe all at once, maybe in stages. As Adam and Eve were created from the dust of the Earth, so this mass of humanity will also be assembled from dirt using their old DNA records, then have their old memories downloaded.
We don't know what the condition of the Earth will be at that time. Maybe there will still be great oceans, maybe they're frozen solid, maybe not. All of these people will be forced to join forces and attack the City of God.
We can't rule out Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, and Alexander the Great reappearing to form new kingdoms to achieve their military objective of defeating God's armies.
One unnamed leader, probably an Evil Extraterrestrial/Messenger/Angel, overpowers the opposition, uniting most, if not all of the members of the 2nd Resurrection Team into the greatest fighting force ever to exist. Maybe some stubborn humans are the last holdouts.
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#98883 - 2006-10-14 02:09:57
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: Aliensanctuary]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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So, the Iron/Ceramic part of the Multi-Metal statue of Dan 2, the Iron-Toothed Destructo-Beast of Dan 7, and the 7-Headed Scarlet Beast ridden by the Prostitute of Rev 17 represent the same kingdom, Satan's Kingdom, following the 2nd Resurrection, the resurrection of the wicked dead. NLT---Rev 17:8
The beast you saw was alive but isn't now. And yet he will soon come up out of the bottomless pit and go to eternal destruction. And the people who belong to this world, whose names were not written in the Book of Life from before the world began, will be amazed at the reappearance of this beast who had died. NLT---Rev 17:15
The waters where the prostitute is sitting represent masses of people of every nation and language. There is a Religious-Political system, based on a false religion, controlling the world just before Christ's 2nd Coming, then following the 2nd Resurrection, it reappears after the Babylonian/Persian/Greek attempts at governing the unnumbered masses of those not chosen for God's Kingdom. After its reappearance, it is supported by Satan's Kingdom until at last, it is cast off, and Satan's Kingdom is in full control, ready to make war on the Kingdom of God. Historically, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece were teensy-weensy little kingdoms, but in the future, post 2nd Resurrection, they will reappear on a much greater geographic scale.
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#100291 - 2006-10-22 21:04:12
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: Aliensanctuary]
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Broke the 400 mark
Registered: 2005-02-26
Posts: 481
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NLT---Dan 7: 9-12
9. I watched as thrones were put in place and the Ancient One* sat down to judge . His clothing was as white as snow, his hair like whitest wool. He sat on a fiery throne with wheels of blazing fire,
10. and a river of fire flowed from his presence. Millions of angels ministered to him, and a hundred million stood to attend him. Then the court began its session, and the books were opened.
I would be interested to see what forum members would say to vs.9 & 10 above, from Daniel 7. At what point in time did they/will they happen? What would you cite as evidence for your conclusion? And what does your conclusion mean for Christians today? What are those "books" and what should they mean to someone who wants to walk with Jesus today?
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#100336 - 2006-10-23 08:45:43
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: closed]
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Broke the 400 mark
Registered: 2005-02-26
Posts: 481
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PS
I also wanted to state something re the poll above for this topic. I did not fill it out because it did not seem like the best answer was there.
The second last option re "current Adventist position," does not seem to actually be what the official position is.
Can anyone supply an "official" reference for this stated position? I usually just say that we should make it clear that we are opposing ideas/doctrines, not people, personally. Does this seem right, or is there a better way to say it?
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#101637 - 2006-10-31 01:11:26
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: Aliensanctuary]
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Broke the 400 mark
Registered: 2005-02-26
Posts: 481
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I've been thinking lately, What if at the First Resurrection of the righteous, they do not leave the Earth, but instead remain there during the 1000 years?
Where are the wicked? All dead, I presume. When the wicked are resurrected at the 2nd Resurrection, they take a while to get organized, then at last, they attack the righteous who have taken shelter in the rebuilt Jerusalem and the Temple. The wicked do indeed overrun the temple and the city and exult in triumph until God arrives and judges everyone.
Following the Judgement, the righteous are taken from the Earth and the wicked are destroyed. Hello! How are you "Aliensanctuary" ? I would be interested in hearing you explain more about where you get the ideas from in your post above. For eg., where in the Bible do you interpret it so that the righteous who were raised in the first resurrection, remain on the earth during the 1000 year millenium? Also, where in the Bible did you get it from that "following the judgment, the righteous are taken from the Earth?" And where do they go when they are thus "taken?"
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#101729 - 2006-11-01 02:08:07
Re: SSL#4 Daniel 7 - Topics for Discussion and Poll
[Re: closed]
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Registered: 2005-03-03
Posts: 1126
Loc: Northern California
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I'm just trying to think outside of the box by trying out unorthodox ideas to see if they work. NLT
Dan 10
20. He replied, "Do you know why I have come? Soon I must return to fight against the spirit prince of the kingdom of Persia, and then against the spirit prince of the kingdom of Greece.*
21. But before I do that, I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (There is no one to help me against these spirit princes except Michael, your spirit prince.* I have been standing beside Michael* as his support and defense since the first year of the reign of Darius the Mede.)
These particular verses confirm to me that Gahbree-El traveled back in time to speak to Daniel. At the Time of the End, three kingdoms will arise with familiar, resurrected rulers, amid conflict, followed by Satan's Kingdom as the 4th. Gahbree-El and Meekaw-El are actively involved in the wars, but Gahbree-El takes a time-out to either appear or project his likeness to communicate with Dawnee-El thousands of years in the past.
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